'Eco-dictatorship'

I leave you on this rather depressing note:

Germany ‘Sliding Head Over Heels Into Eco-Dictatorship

Germany's green government advisors admit frankly that decarbonization can only be achieved by the limitation of democracy - both nationally and internationally.

Read the whole thing.

Comments

[BBD]

(hro001 @ May 28 12:57am)

Hilary

What is bemusing about the whole thing is the absolute dismissal of nuclear. We are told there is no choice: the only way to a 'sustainable society is a massive reduction of personal energy consumption coupled with (apparently) de-industrialisation.

Roger Pielke Jr points to the 'iron law' of climate policy, which says that if it is socially unacceptable (costs; impacts) it will be politically impossible.

I think that he is right and that Schellnhuber and the rest have collectively slid into delusion. The parroting of said delusional rhetoric by the OECD is, as you say, deeply worrying.

The answer to the problem is not dismantling the global economy and reverting to.. well to something 'sustainable' (actually I have no idea what these people really mean by 'sustainable society', but my guess is that it would be regressive and universally rejected by the electorate).

The answer is more nuclear and less coal, and in time, less gas. If small-scale renewables integrate at the local level, that's fine too. Pretending that we can achieve a 'sustainable society' without a massive expansion of nuclear capacity is to step outside the framework of rational debate.

I wonder how long it will take 'the people' to notice that what is being proposed for them (largely by unelected bodies) is unworkable nonsense?

[BBD]

Paul Boyce

Very interesting context.

And agreed re the increasingly silly language on this thread.

Here's a tip chaps: if you want to be taken seriously - act seriously.

[BBD]

In case anyone doubts the current importance of nuclear in the present German energy mix, there is this from The German Energy Blog:

As a result of the Fukushima moratorium and scheduled revisions, only 4 of the 17 German nuclear power plants are currently online. Favourable conditions (low network load, strong solar, but rather low wind power input) and system operator interventions have so far made it possible to maintain network stability, the TSOs [Transmission System Operators] pointed out. Assuming no unusual events, the situation shall presumably be manageable also for the summer period, the four TSOs (Amprion GmbH, 50Hertz Transmission GmbH, EnbW Transportnetze AG and Tennet TSO GmbH) said.

However, stability will require using every possibility form of redispatch measures, interventions in the electricity markets, to postponing urgent grid maintenance and expansion projects as well as power plant revisions, they added. The TSOs also indicated that the free electricity market will be suspended for considerable periods of time. Still the risk of power failure has increased, the TSOs said.

In case input capacity remained reduced by 8,000 MW after the end of the 3-month nuclear power extension moratorium (on 15 June 2011), TSOs foresee problems in particular for the coming winter months, as the possibilities for interventions were largely exhausted. In (industrial) southern Germany the electricity demand might not be satisfied on cold cloudy winter days with a low wind power input in northern Germany. 2,000 MW of secure generation capacity would be missing in southern Germany. Demand might also not be covered by electricity imports if other countries consume their electricity output themselves. As a consequence the risk for large power outages will increase, the TSOs warned.

So what do Schellnhuber and other anti-nuclear Greens think will power Germany if all nuclear capacity is removed?

In addition to the 40 billion Euro cost of switching from nuclear to renewables, there is the very real possibility that the national security of supply will be affected by the current situation. Going forward, this will make life increasingly difficult for the many proponents of this huge change in the energy mix.

Perhaps that is why the German anti-nuclear Greens are getting so noisy now.

Judging with a cold eye, my bet is that in the end, they lose utterly. More nuclear will be the ultimate outcome. The number of Greens publicly demanding a suspension of democracy will probably drop sharply too.

[BBD]

Sorry, (yet another) formatting screw-up above.

Does anyone know if there's an off-line editor that you can use to test for errors in the HTML tags? This is really starting to annoy me...

[BBD]

BH

Thank you (again). Much appreciated.

[Roy]

@ Mique

"World War II finished 66 years ago, people."

Yes it did and since then there have been many things to admire about Germany. That makes it all the more depressing that some Germans, even with the best of intentions, should effectively suggest the reintroduction of Fascism. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[BBD]

Roy

Mique said @ May 28, 2011 at 8:31 AM:

Similar anti-democratic statements have been made in the mainstream media by warmists in Australia, the US, Great Britain and tout le mond. There's nothing particularly German about that sort of political" thought".

You unfortunately describe Schellnhuber's apparently totalitarian views as fascistic. Then proceed inevitably to the German connection.

Let's stop at 'totalitarian'. It's accurate as far as I understand what is proposed, but avoids the counter-productive associations.

Let's not forget why sceptics rightly object to being called deniers.

[Punksta]

And the way to curtail democracy, is to centralise political power. As with the EU.
And so Yes, this is all about instituting world government.

[geoffchambers]

In all the sound and fury over a few bad jokes, people are missing the most interesting point about this article. The author, who is resisting what has become almost the standard demand for the limitation of democracy “to save the planet”, is a socialist, CEO of a renewable energy company, and ex-Minister for the Environment in the Free City (i.e. regional government) of Hamburg. In other words, an open debate is taking place among environmentalists about the most important political subject imaginable in the mainstream German press.
When commenters such as me or AnthonyIndia (see his comment on the “Nurse made” thread) try to make the same point at the Guardian, our comments are removed.

There’s a more general reason to watch our language than the excellent one provided by Mique, BBD and others. One day, we hope our arguments will be heard outside our tiny world, and the likes of His Grace will get a hearing in the mainstream media. At that point, the Monbiots and Bob Wards will be crawling all over this blog to reveal what kind of creatures live Under the Hill. I’d like to surprise them, but in a nice way.

[Jon-Anders Grannes]

This sounds and looks more and more like envirosocialism?

And the people and the idea behind it all is from the radicals of the 1960's?

UNFCCC and IPCC is not about saving the planet.
It's only purpose is to save socialism and communism.

Because that is the ideology we end up with if we do what they want.

Why is there no public debate about the political radical future they plan for us?

[3x2]

As became clear just prior to the Copenhagen trough fest, this kind of thinking is in no way unique to Germany. The Communist anthill of "sustainability" is the very core of the UN agenda. Agenda 21 brainwashing of young children in schools. Committees deciding where jobs and capital will go, an end to private ownership - sound familiar?

On the up-side, I doubt that ordinary Germans will be any more accepting of the new communism than of the old. Perhaps even less so, having had more direct experience with it than the UK/US.

[Banjo]

Just been watching `Hitlers Henchmen` on cable.

[BBD]

Banjo

Just out of curiosity, have you read any of this thread - even just the last ten comments?

[Mike Smith]

So now it's the 10,000 year Reich they want.
Thank god it has absolutely no chance of flying.

[BBD]

Mike Smith

Same question to you as to Banjo above.

[geoffchambers]

BBD
I don’t think we’re getting anywhere. Perhaps His Grace could set up a special thread for those who, every time they see the word “Germany”, feel an overwhelming desire to do their Basil Fawlty imitation?

[BBD]

geoffchambers

Yes, it could be callled 'Oh What A Wonderful Bore' or some such...

[Gixxerboy]

It's worse than we thought.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13592208

Apparently the shutdown of all nuclear power in Germany is not at the lobbying stage. It's policy. By 2022.

Poor Germany is kaput. On the brighter side, their headlong plunge into a de-industralised future may be a global wake-up call. Once people see the results, only the eco-loons will want a bar of it. People will be dying: from the cold (especially the elderly), from reduced medical services through power cuts and so on. This is terrible for Germany but it may serve as a vivid illustration of where eco-mentalism takes us.

[Patagon]

Worth reading the opinion of a German about these Professors : P.Gosselin's No tricks Zone

[Patagon]

sorry, the link