Sunday
Feb012015
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Rose on green thuggery
Feb 1, 2015 Greens David Rose has a long piece in the Mail on Sunday looking at the increasing prominence of thuggery among environmentalists.
Climate of Hate: His children are urged to kill him, he's compared to Adolf Hitler and labelled a 'denier' – even though he's Jewish. Disturbing article reveals what happens if you dare to doubt the Green prophets of doom.
You get a sense that the powers that be in the Guardian are giving this behaviour a nod and a wink.
Reader Comments (100)
So, who planned and carried out the logistics of the holocaust ? The Greens, fascists, socialists, Maoists ? No, something more calculating, deadly and evil than all of those, IBM.
New York Times.
However, another invention did exist: the IBM punch card and card sorting system—a precursor to the computer. IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success. IBM Germany, using its own staff and equipment, designed, executed, and supplied the indispensable technologic assistance Hitler's Third Reich needed to accomplish what had never been done before—the automation of human destruction. More than 2,000 such multi-machine sets were dispatched throughout Germany, and thousands more throughout German-dominated Europe. Card sorting operations were established in every major concentration camp. People were moved from place to place, systematically worked to death, and their remains cataloged with icy automation.
https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/black-ibm.html
Athelstan, that helps to explain (to this outsider) the rise of UKIP. The political class are completely disconnected from the populace, 99% of whom never read the gaurandian.
If the government and the BBC were serious about getting the best applicants, why would they not advertise in the publications that most people read?
Indeed Johanna - to the first part.
And as to the second - I am at a loss or should I say that, the BBC only want certain types - the Cultural Marxist 'hymnal' [oooh there's irony - is it?] is seared into the mind by rote, only a particular type of moron can totally succumb - perfect for the Beeb however and probably nearly good enough for ABC too. [;-)
"As a kid I often wondered how ordinary people in Germany could have just let someone like Hitler take over the country. "
Let us be clear about this, the ravings of Hitler reflected the views of most Europeans, including the people of the UK at the time. Jews were hated/envied in equal measure throughout Europe to all our shame.
The Nazi project was driven by American business because they failed in their own Fascist coup at the same time .
The Whitehouse Coup - BBC
Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by right-wing American businessmen
The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell House & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.
Mike Thomson investigates why so little is known about this biggest ever peacetime threat to American democracy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
Listen to it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXGUgFXoRu4
MIT study
In fact, without the explicit help of Standard Oil, the Nazi air force would never have gotten off the ground in the first place. The planes that made up the Luftwaffe needed tetraethyl lead gasoline in order to fly. At the time, only Standard Oil, Du Pont, and General Motors had the ability to produce this vital substance. In 1938, Walter C. Teagle, then president of Standard Oil, helped Hermann Schmitz of I.G. Farben to acquire 500 tons of tetraethyl lead from Ethyl, a British Standard subsidiary. A year later, Schmitz returned to London and obtained an additional 15 million dollars worth of tetraethyl lead which was to be turned into aviation gasoline back in Germany.
After the war began in Europe, the English became angry about U.S. shipments of strategic materials to Nazi Germany. Standard Oil immediately changed the registration of their entire fleet to Panamanian to avoid British search or seizure. These ships continued to carry oil to Tenerife in the Canary Islands, where they refueled and siphoned oil to German tankers for shipment to Hamburg.
This deception was exposed on March 31, 1941 when the U.S. State Department issued a detailed report on refueling stations in Mexico and Central and South America that were suspected of furnishing oil to Italian and German merchant vessels. The report listed Standard Oil of New Jersey and Standard Oil of California among those fueling enemy ships, but there is no record of any action being taken as a result of this discovery. Similar deals between Standard Oil and the Japanese government for the purchase of tetraethyl lead have also been uncovered, but no direct action was ever taken against Standard Oil for its dealings with America’s enemies.
A brief side note, however, is that on April 17, l945 the Chase National Bank was placed on trial in federal court on charges of having violated the Trading With the Enemy Act by converting German marks into U.S. dollars. Because many countries refused to accept German currency during the war, the Nazis used foreign banks like Chase National to change the currency into money that would be accepted, and thus allowed them to purchase much need materials to prolong the war. The closer one looks, the more ties one finds between American business and Nazi Germany, many of which remained strong well into and beyond the war.
http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v13/3/oil.html
Ten Reasons Why I Am No Longer a Leftist
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/07/ten_reasons_i_am_no_longer_a_leftist.html#ixzz3QX9o19Ua
Athelstan, it does seem like a selection process. Only the "right" kind of people will see the ads in the garam-masalian. And, I wonder what their numbers would look like if those ads were withdrawn?
Geronimo, you have a point, although it is not the only point.
Jews were routinely discriminated against and vilified all over Europe long before Hitler appeared. As a crime fiction fan, I can attest that this prejudice pervaded the genre, including early works by Agatha Christie. Gentleman's clubs (including in Australia) routinely excluded Jews, as did fancy golf clubs and country clubs and the like.
This certainly made genocide easier. But, since this kind of discrimination had been going on for a very long time, it's hard to say that it caused it. People may not know that one reason why Jews were concentrated in certain occupations is because there were laws across Europe and Russia which banned them from many other occupations. Ghettos were created by laws, as well as by prejudice.
Anyway, for today's Jews, that is the least of their problems. The refusal of most governments and citizens to protect them from Islamic attacks (except via hand-wringing and calls for Kumbiya) is more on point.
OK. It’s died down.
Feb 1, 2015 at 7:08 PM Salopian and Feb 1, 2015 at 7:28 PM johanna…
These are comments I cab completely agree with.
But sorry guys – I’ve seen nothing to dispute my original point. The Nazis (in practise, not in larval form) were the right wing, totalitarian equivalent of Stalinism.
And the left must beware totalitarianism.
And the right must beware totalitarianism.
We on the left have realised that. But many on the right seem to act as though they are vaccinated merely by way of being on the right.
That is folly.
Why doesn't someone complain to the Police about these terrorists?
That is what a lot of these greens are, intolerant, nasty, vicious, terrorist thugs.
They have no place in civilised society.
esmiff I have a felling that there simply never will enough tin foil available for you to feel safe .
Meanwhile I still awaiting the evidenced to support your claim the Rothschild brought the USA into the war and caused the great depression . that coming any-time soon or once again are you going to resort to Wiki links that don't even mention the Rothschild's ?
Claiming that the Nazis are the opposite of the communists because they tried to kill each other is silly. Extremist groups most often are the enemies of everyone, especially their own ideological brethren. Consider what the Cubans did to the communist party, for instance.
It happens in "regular" democratic politics too. A moderate left wing majority party will first eliminate competition to _its_left_ so that it can collect votes that more naturally fall in their ideology. So do right wing parties (to their right). It is the reason why in countries like the US one can say that democrats range from progressives to communists while republicans range from liberals (true liberals) to conservatives.
KnR
You seem to live in a computer game where trolls have to be shot 10 times before they die.
The Washington Post, Jerusalem and New York Times do not wear tin foil hats.
Americans shouldn't discuss politics because they've never had any, don't understand it and no one tells them anything.
We on the left have realised that. But many on the right seem to act as though they are vaccinated merely by way of being on the right.
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As Tonto famously said, who is this "we"?
I have no doubt that members of the Courteney family abhor this stuff. But your fellow-travellers are in it up to their collective (and so far not beheaded) necks.
The second part of your comment is opaque, so I can't respond.
esmiff might be amused by Mencken's account of the Progressive Party Convention in 1948.
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Oh, boy, johanna, opaque folly is my specialty. The right sees only the authoritarianism of the left and the left sees only the totalitarian of the right. What all forget is that left and right to either extreme meet. Why the human fools so persist is opaque to me.
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kim
Thanks. He's obviously a genius.
Kim:
A slight disagreement (which goes to the anger discussed in this thread). In US politics, Charles Krauthammer has thoughtfully observed a difference: "The right believes that the left is wrong. The left believes that the right is evil."
So one side attempts to discuss the facts and the other side discusses beheadings...
@esmiff
Then there's the successful Brit involvement with Wendell Wilkie's presidential campaign.....
Violent extremists do what they do in whatever ideology they find themselves.
Our left-right discussion is pointless to the Islamist extremists. I doubt if our subtle arguments about left vs. right, and if Marxists can be greens, and if greens are socialists (and which definitions of those terms we use anyway?) impresses the Boko or ISIS or even good ol' Al Qaeda or the Taliban a bit. Pol Pot used a pastoralist version of Maoism/Marxism to commit self-genocide on his own people, using criteria like who had dentures or wore eye glasses. But let's be clear Pot did this by attracting and educating a significant sized, highly motivated group or people to do their evil atrocity on his behalf. But what is interesting from this side of the ocean is how the sudden rise of extremist leftist political groups in the EU is reported on with barely a comment while any group that even chit chats about their language culture and borders is a dangerous throwback to fascist times. I read someplace that degeneracy in extreme forms is the inability to recognize one's enemies. And in more extreme forms does not even care.
Gordon Bennett!
I enter these hallowed halls in search of a Tol, and then stumble across the name of one David Rose. A so called "investigative journalist" who doesn't know his scientific arse from his proverbial elbow.
I politely informed him of the error of his ways on Twitter, and he told me to "Eff Off" in no uncertain terms. Now I'm "Effing Off" in the general direction of the "Independent" Press Standards Organisation, where Rose/Mail won't have a wooden leg to stand on:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2015/02/the-science-of-the-david-rose-climate-of-hate-self-interview/#Feb01
Whether my complaint gets upheld does however remain to be seen!
MCourtney
We're obviously not very convincing, johanna and I!
Did you even try to take on board the point we were both making? Forget "left" and "right" They are labels designed to fool you into believing that the likes of Greenpeace and the Socialist Workers Party are "good" people because they have the interests of the working classes and "the people" in mind while the BNP and the English Defence League are "bad" people because they have the interests of .......................................
And that is where your argument falls on its face. Because the BNP and the EDL are every bit as working class and for the interests of "the people" as Greenpeace (which actually hates "people" and only loves the environment) and the SWP which doesn't give a flying f*** for the "working classes" except as cannon fodder.
Let me apply a little cod psychology here, and I apologise if I'm off beam. You recognise Stalin and Mao as evil — rightly so. You also recognise Hitler as evil — rightly so. But you have to believe (sub-consciously, which is where I might be in bother!) that since the former pair have been universally acknowledged as "left" then in order to assuage your sense of fitness or fairness, Hitler must be seen as "right". Otherwise we are saying that only left-wing dictators are evil.
Whereas my point (and johanna's) is that evil is evil is evil from whatever angle you look at it and the values, aims, and methods of Nazism and Communism (whether Stalinism, Leninism, Trotskyism or Maoism) are identical. Add in any other dictatorial government run by a psychopath or a junta of psychopaths and you have the same result whether they are so-called "right-wing" South American dictators or the so-called "left-wing" groups that overthrow them and turn very rapidly into "left-wing" South-American dictators.
As long as we see geopolitics in this black/white, left/right way a lot of us are going to end up climbing into bed with some very dubious people because they force us to identify with them by the terminology they oblige us to use to describe them.
Jim Hunt
What exactly is your problem? Chapter and verse with links will do.
As for IPSO, aye! In your dreams. You'll need more than a wee rant and the odd tweet from Sponge Bob Smear Pants to convince them, I'm afraid!
Wasn't Hitler a bit of a green himself?
esmiff
Both Junckers and Heinkel made diesel-powered planes (not requiring lead) although a ready supply of leaded petrol was no doubt a great help - I'm not sure a diesel fighter would have been much use!
I don't think anyone here doubts that Stalin, Mao and Hitler were evil (or at least very bad in their actions).
There are place on the web that I could go to find different views. I don't need to hear those views anymore. Those views are wrong.
And yes, I acknowledge that killing lots of people in the name of nation, culture and race is not that different from killing lots of people in the name of the international spirit, the force of history and social class.
But the approaches to the extremes are different. I maintain that the extremes can be reached from both left and right. The right is not safe from extremist tendencies.
However, I will concede that not all on the left are now aware of the danger of extremist tendencies - even though more of the left can see that Stalin and Mao got to where they did from their place. I concede, not all make the connection. But, because, we acknowledge where Stalin and Mao came from, many - probably most - (on the left) do now see the danger.
Jim Hunt
If it's a 'great white con' that Arctic ice levels are being misrepresented in the media, what does that make the repeated predictions by climatologists (and Al Gore) that the Arctic would be 'ice-free' by various successive dates from about 2005?
Given the public availability of the data (e.g. here) it seems unlikely that it would wildly exaggerated by anyone with sceptic tendencies. If only that were true of the greens!
jamesp - As luck would have it I've put together my own repository of publicly available Arctic sea ice data, with a little help from my friends:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/
Some of that information is unavailable anywhere else on the web, and certainly not at WUWT! If you're at all interested in checking out the standard of investigative journalism at that particular organ you need look no further than:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2015/01/mark-serreze-and-the-arctic-sea-ice-death-spiral/
MikeJ - Is that sufficient for your purposes?
Nice volume rebound the last couple of years. Thanks, Jim.
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My observation would be that all of these extremists groups (ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Queda) are run by the intelligence service.
UKIP infiltrated by MI5 - Norman Tebbit http://news.sky.com/story/35324/tebbits-mi5-infiltration-claims
MCourtney
I think we'd better call a truce.
The difference between us is simply that I do not (and refuse to) see politics as left vs right and insofar as I do for shorthand purposes I classify all tyrants and would be tyrants on a separate scale altogether. As far as I'm concerned labelling them left or right simply gives them a sort of spurious credibility that they don't deserve.
Thee BBC never - EVER - misses an opportunity...
On the usually-watchable 'Countryfile' yesterday (Sunday) one of the presenters trotted out the mantra: '2014 was OFFICIALLY (my capitals) the warmest year evah...'
I lost interest in the point he was trying to make after that....
MikeK - Thank you for your kind words! Have you ever heard of the "Great Green Con" before?
Kim - The pleasure is all mine! Are you a big fan of the PIOMAS model then? Did you take a close look at the regional breakdowns?
Yeah, I wondered over at Judy's if the increasing volume is where the Stadium Wave predicts it, but nobody else seemed to wonder.
And we've already been over your belief about my belief in PIOMAS.
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My apologies for repeating myself Kim. I'm new both here and over at JC's. It's not obvious a priori that "Kim" would necessarily be identical at both. I knew another Kim on the Arctic Sea Ice Forum. That wasn't you as well was it?
I note you now ask me about my belief in PIOMAS rather than telling me what it is.
I asked you to look at ice volume. You showed me PIOMAS. I interpreted it to show increasing volume, really a nice rebound, for the last two years. You responded by asking me about my belief in PIOMAS.
Son, this is not honest disputation. With disputants like you I often ask them to watch the thermometers. For you, I'll task you with watching ice volume, a leading indicator of recovery.
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Kim - Are you talking about @JC's, or here, or ??? There was a certain amount of duplication after all!
At the risk of repeating myself, "Did you take a close look at the regional breakdowns"?
Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm not your son. My late father passed away in 1992.
Yes, I noted and commented over there. Ice volume recovery is more pronounced the higher the latitude. I believe it may be asking too much precision of the Stadium Wave to get it to predict the longitude of ice recovery.
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Ahem, to predict the longitude of recovery on this short a time scale. If the precision is there, this might be the leadingest indicator. Since you're following ice volume recovery now, perhaps you'll soon be clairvoyant.
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Jim Hunt
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/people/Jim_Hunt/profile.html
If this is you, then maybe you could deploy some of the skills you claim here on
http://www.v2g.co.uk/about-v2g/
i.e.
to clean up your infected links.
And I note with the vested interest in alarmism. Yet another trougher.
If I want to look at it with just a wee bit of bias, the last two years is the most pronounced recovery in the ice volume record. But I must admit, it is close, and it is possible that this recovery is just noise around a decline curve.
It seems we'll know a lot more in a year or two. Is it noise, or is it rebound, or is it just noisier noise?
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Mike Jackson, truce happily accepted.
I've threadjacked enough anyway.
Strange how whenever the Nazis are mentioned the debate doesn't stay on track. Godwin's Law isn't entirely true but there is something in it.
Jim Hunt: what are you on about? You burst on here, like Paul Revere to warn us that “the English are coming!” and give a link to your blog. However, your blog makes as much sense as your initial outburst, especially as much of the links you provide to support your views lead us back to… er… your blog. Are you a satirical parody of an alarmist, or a real alarmist? If the former, rest assured that many others do it better, so work on it; if the latter, please could you put your arguments forward in a more cogent, comprehensible form.
SNTF - Which "infected links" might those be?
MC et MJ, kim's Corollary to Godwin's Law is that the first person to invoke the Law as definitive in an argument about authoritarianism is a useful idiot.
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Jim Hunt,
You mean you need help to find them? I refer you to your claims above.
RR - Neither. In part at least I'm a satirical parody of a "sceptic".
Import some earnest. Garnish with curious. Keep on ice.
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I'm curious Kim. What does the "Stadium Wave" predict for summer 2015 in the Arctic?
BTW - Yet another "infected link"?
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/08/has-the-arctic-ice-cap-expanded-for-the-second-year-in-succession/#Feb03
Mr. Rose has finally admitted that he makes stuff up.
Mr Hunt: you do appear to have a rather pompous idea of your own importance. Though your bluster is evident for most, your content does seem to be rather lacking, I’m afraid. Also, it is interesting to note that you like to label people “Us” and “Them” in the echo-chamber that is your blog. It would be interesting to analyse your obvious desire for conflict, even if the conflict is entirely within your own head.