Bishop Hill Saving the world with fossil fuels
Mar 14, 2015 Energy: grid Matt Ridley The must read article this morning is Matt Ridley in the Wall Street Journal, who points out that little-mentioned but rather critical point about fossil fuels - we can't do without them.
As a teenager’s bedroom generally illustrates, left to its own devices, everything in the world becomes less ordered, more chaotic, tending toward “entropy,” or thermodynamic equilibrium. To reverse this tendency and make something complex, ordered and functional requires work. It requires energy.
The more energy you have, the more intricate, powerful and complex you can make a system. Just as human bodies need energy to be ordered and functional, so do societies. In that sense, fossil fuels were a unique advance because they allowed human beings to create extraordinary patterns of order and complexity—machines and buildings—with which to improve their lives.
The result of this great boost in energy is what the economic historian and philosopher Deirdre McCloskey calls the Great Enrichment. In the case of the U.S., there has been a roughly 9,000% increase in the value of goods and services available to the average American since 1800, almost all of which are made with, made of, powered by or propelled by fossil fuels.
I don't think the greens are going to like it.
Reader Comments (83)
Michel,
"Where is there one installed in a field environment? Seeing is believing on this one."
Well you are going to have to wait. The test is supposed to run for about a year, something that is sensible for a new product like this. At present nobody knows how often the powdered fuel has to be changed (it is just a few grams) but we gather it has been about 3 months so far without having to change a module.
You can't see the plant in operation until the end of the test but you can see some photos of it being built, taken a few months ago. http://andrea-rossi.com/1mw-plant/
I don't think anyone would spend the money to build this without testing a module first and knowing that it worked.
Strictly O/T (but since the subject came up earlier ...)
Scotland will not be happy with the result but will fancy their chances against Ireland at Murrayfield next week.
England will be happy with the result but on that performance will not be fancying their chances at the World Cup!
So Adrian doesn't have any verifiable or traceable references.
not banned yet,
"Many people are doubtful that Industrial Heat LLC are doing anything more than running a scam:"
There is plenty if scientific evidence as referenced in the recent issue of Current Science, linked earlier
Recently Parkhomov has replicated the results for a Hot Cast in Russia and apparently there are now a number of people trying to replicate that.
.
Nothing will convince the pathological skeptics until commercial units are on sale at Home Depot.
"Nothing will convince the pathological skeptics until commercial units are on sale at Home Depot."
Track record could count for something:
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Petroldragon
In 1974, Rossi registered a patent for an incineration system. In 1978, he wrote The Incineration of Waste and River Purification, published in Milan by Tecniche Nuove. He then founded Petroldragon, a company for developing oil from waste, which collapsed in the 1990s amidst allegations of dumping toxic waste,[12] and accusations of tax fraud. Its assets were seized, together with Rossi's personal assets, and Rossi was arrested pending trial. Rossi spent four years in prison working on his legal defense in 56 trials, 5 of which ended in convictions related to tax fraud. Rossi wrote that he was acquitted in the other 51 trials.[13] According to court documents found by journalists at Swedish Radio, Rossi was convicted to prison on three accounts of environmental crime that he was never acquitted of.[14] The government of Lombardy spent over forty million euros to dispose of the 70,000 tonnes of toxic waste that Petroldragon had improperly dumped.[5] According to the mayor of Lacchiarella, Luigi Acerbi, "In the years when [Rossi] was working here, he didn't produce a single drop of oil, as far as we know."[13]
At the conclusion of the trials in 1996, Rossi moved to the US.[15]
//
Additional material including some references here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur)
"Russell, nice of you to make an appearance, on behalf of Green Anthropogenic Tag Team Physics. How are Ken and Daiman to day?....Green sheep are easily led, by lying vultures, in Green Sheep costumes."
No worries-- who exactly are Ken and Daiman ?
Physics is utterly color blind and about the only Climat Wars fashion statement I'm looking forward to is Tallbloke's debut in a Pudsey Bear suit with an eyepatch.
oops. Should have been Hot Cat not Hot Cast in my comment above.
This is the high temperature version that runs at over 1000C. The 1 MW plant is the older low temperature version that just makes steam.
Parkhomov's replication can be seen here.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/12/27/lugano-confirmed-replication-report-published-of-hot-cat-device-by-russian-researcher-alexander-g-parkhomov/
and
http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Alexander_Parkhomov%27s_E-Cat_replication_experiments
Just watching the BBC news, about the Vanautu calamity. Corrugated iron roofs blown everywhere. Corrugated iron was more durable than palm fronds though.
Those structures would not have survived the UK Oct 87 storm.
A disaster, yes. A global warming disaster, no.
Were those structures built for the conditions likely to be experienced, no.
Do I feel sympathy for the victims, yes.
Do I respect anyone trying to make political gains out of others misery, no. Just contempt.
Presumably the news crews will get their expenses alright, and the news editors will be rewarded.
I will put more in a charitable tin, but it will only go to rebuild similar structures. As pointless as being taxed to reduce climate change.
If climate change taxes were used to pay for reconstruction in Vanuatu, with more resilient structures, that would be sensible. It would also fit with the Red/Green underlying thread of the developed world doing something positive to help, rather than destroying western economies, to benefit those on the Green Limousine trail (Bandwagons are so passe for modern Greens luvvies)
Play spot the Presidential limousine in countries crying out for overseas aid. (no relevance to Vanuatu I hope)
not banned yet,
You are quite wrong. The Petroldragon process works and has been replicated here. Rossi was railroaded, probably by the Mafia whose waste business he threatened. The waste material he had collected was retroactively classified as toxic, but he was eventually cleared of that charge.
I am not here to defend Rossi. Take your ad homs somewhere else please.
I do not think there was a true word spoken in that report; when preparing your position for Paris make sure to check other fabrications being made about your position.
China announced a deal with the USA (ready for Paris) in which they said they could not even attempt to reduce CO2 emissions until 2035 but they promised to introduce Shale gas in huge quantities before then. to mitigate against their coal use. Unfortunately the shale deposits in China are beset by poor local geological conditions meaning that so far they have recovered Zilch.
ATTP, rather than exaggerating for effect, why don't you try understating? You might find it worked better - supposing, that is, the effect you are trying for is to make converts. But maybe all you want to do is to look good (in your own eyes, at least). I can of course sympathise with that.
Sure thing Adrian - feel free to pop back with that Home Depot sku when available.
BBC Radio 2 news 8 pm, Vanuatu storm due to global warming.
Alcohol fuelled brawls in town centres, will be blamed on global warming this summer, if the temperature rises above 90F.
Ever noticed that iner city riots, and prison roof top protests, don't happen if it is cold and/or raining? The BBC no doubt have their top people waiting to run an exclusive this summer, as the Rumble in tbe Urban Jungle, prior to the Panic in Paris.
O/T What's happened to Jeremy Clarkson? Has the program been taken off the air? It was not clear to me reading Delingpole's piece exactly what happened.
when individuals leaning in a similar direction to ATTP burst into print, I am reminded of my (long ago) childhood in a world without domestic refrigeration, cooking with wood-fired stoves and the evenings spent reading by the light of Coleman pressure lanterns. I enjoyed much of my childhood, not realising just how much effort my elders had to expend just to keep me warm and fed, and I am pleased that, now I am a responsible adult, I do not have to chop kindling and firewood in order to keep warm and to eat cooked meals and that I do not have to milk a 'house cow' so that we may enjoy dairy products. I do enjoy growing vegetables, but I am not forced to grow veges in order to eat but ratehr as a pleasurable pastime.
Any Green thinking that sees no advantage in the use of fossil fuels is perverse in the extreme.
Phil Howerton, the incident has been reported as a fracas in a bar, near the BBC studio. From this, 'fracas' tends to mean that at least one punch was thrown. Whether a punch was landed, is not known.
I think Clarkson may have been clearing his diary, for the IPCC chairmanship job, that, to popular acclaim, has suddenly and unexpectedly become available.
Russell, since you ask, the Ken I was referring to is involved with ATTP's web site that you link to. And Daiman too. Perhaps you had forgotten their surnames aswell.
As an advocate for "free speech" and one who complains about "the trivial, and sometimes infantile, narrative in articles like that written by Matt Ridley (and often promoted on this site)." ATTP claims to want a debate. Of course, using "trivial" and "sometimes infantile" is the way to go.
" I realise that the goal of this site and the goal of Matt's article is not to promote any serious discussion about this topic; it's all just politics. So, you also shouldn't take what I'm saying as some kind of fundamental criticism, as I realise that this is just part of reality. There's a narrative that some want to promote and it's clear that doing so requires dismissing any alternative view point. Any recognition that some kind of alternative might be plausible would completely destroy this chosen narrative. I just assume that since everyone here is a huge fan of free speech, that you have no real problem with me pointing this out."
1.) You have not started any serious discussion;
2) On no occasion has your viewpoint been dismissed.
So, over to you, ATTP. Give us your critique of Matt Ridley's article.
Here's a hint for you: the chance of you "completely" destroying this "chosen narrative" are nil.
But over to you, Mr Physics. We are waiting.
ATTP has written his reply at his own site. Turns out to be just another whine and nothing to do with energy, fossil fuelled or otherwise.
jolly farmer, Russell has apparently forgotten names (see above) and asked for a reminder. Try googling
civil dialog in the climate world
Perhaps Russells memory is afflicted by climate change, and he wants help with his own surname aswell.
ATTP's definition of outreach work, and engagement is all there.
Everything you need to know about ATTP
http://wattsupwiththat.com/about-wuwt/my-blog-spawn/
clipe, your link, leads to a chap called Russell, and gives his surname.
Couldn't possibly be the same Russell who was faking it about knowing ATTP? See above for details.
Do all climate scientists fake, lie and conspire? And physicists aswell?
Apparently climate scientists (and Physicists) know for a fact that climate sceptics subscribe to conspiracy theories. Russell has proved correct in this instance, by faking amnesia about a trivial conspiracy, he is part of, to GreenSlime someone who has criticised GreenSlimers.
And Russell wants me to think, he does not know anything. I am beginning to be convinced.
"rather than not having any desire to actually do so."
Yes, has no physics, we know you have no desire for rational debate, or ability.
That has been made patently clear from the world go.
Andthentheresmath, so to speak
Steve McIntyre.
If I knew what golf charlie was drinking :
"clipe, your link, leads to a chap called Russell, and gives his surname.
Couldn't possibly be the same Russell who was faking it about knowing ATTP? See above for details.
Do all climate scientists fake, lie and conspire? And physicists aswell?
Apparently climate scientists (and Physicists) know for a fact that climate sceptics subscribe to conspiracy theories. Russell has proved correct in this instance, by faking amnesia about a trivial conspiracy, he is part of, to GreenSlime someone who has criticised GreenSlimers.
And Russell wants me to think, he does not know anything. I am beginning to be convinced."
I'd send Mark Morano a case.
Here is a nice, little article on the fact that the Guardian is the biggest recipient of digital advertising revenue from HSBC. A substantial part of that was for the environment section pushing global warming for HSBC carbon trading.
http://nicholaswilson.com/captured-guardian/
Lest we forget
Climategate: George Monbiot, the Guardian and Big Oil by James Delingpole
But who is it that sponsors the Guardian?s Environment pages and eco conferences? Why, only that famous non-fossil-fuel company Shell. (Though I notice their logo no longer appears on top of the Guardian?s eco pages: has the Guardian decided the relationship was just too embarrassing to be, er, sustainable?)
And which company has one of the largest carbon trading desks in London, cashing in on industry currently worth around $120 billion ? an industry which could not possibly exist without pan-global governmental CO2 emissions laws ? BP (which stands for British Petroleum)
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100019523/climategate-george-monbiot-is-in-the-pay-of-big-oil/
The idea that modern politicians or journalists have values is completely ridiculous.
ATTP now asserts the truth is somewhere in the middle.
What a nice early morning bit of irony.
Thanks,
etc.
Yep, according to ATTP, the truth about e = mc squared is "somewhere in the middle."
Mike Jackson, Tiny CO2, et al, you have found one reason I will not respond to aTTP – that you have misunderstood his argument is your fault for reading it as you did, certainly not his for writing it in such a way that it could so easily be read as you (wrongly, it appears) read it. That one would have thought that at least part of his job is to ensure that he can communicate clearly has to make you consider why he is still employed; that his remuneration comes from involuntary contributions from the tax-payer (i.e. me, and most of you) makes it even more galling.
It is a typically good article by Ridley, but does contain trademark hints at the fact that he is a lukewarmist:
"We should also invest in research on ways to absorb carbon dioxide from the air, by fertilizing the ocean or fixing it through carbon capture and storage."
What earthly necessity is there for extracting carbon dioxide from the atmosphere? It is plant food, as Ridley knows perfectly well. He is a world way from the eugenics-"inspired" ideologues, who proliferate in the climate apparat, so why does he want to reduce something that enhances the food supply?
"Carbon" capture and storage isn't just a lazy expression, yet again confusing, deliberately, "carbon" with "carbon dioxide", but it is a totally pointless, impractical and potentially disastrous concept. Carbon dioxide can't kill, unless it is concentrated to the exclusion of oxygen. It's not actively deadly, as carbon monoxide is, but, as with helium, or nitrogen, it is impossible to breathe by itself. The gruesome evidence for this is the Lake Nyos tragedy, Cameroon, in 1986, when CO2, bubbling up from a crater lake, flowed downhill and suffocated nearly two thousand souls. The one and only way to make carbon dioxide dangerous is to put it all in one place. Since there is absolutely no benefit from doing that, why should we want to?
Owen Morgan
There is no such thing as lukedead. Ridley, like everyone else in the 5th column GWPF is a warmist with their traitorous arguments about climate sensitivity. That's why Pielke Jr is gone and the phony, establishment opposition GWPF gets invited onto parliamentary committees.
Has there ever been a more preposterous people's champion than Nigel Lawson ? Just like Jonathon Jones said the Royal Society didn't speak for him, the GWPF doesn't speak for me or anyone else except the establishment.
The defining moment of climate science was Michael Mann lying, cheating to make the medieval warm period disappear. I wonder who commissioned him to do it ? I wonder who sponsored Gavin Schmidt to set up the venomous Realclimate website to defend it ?
Schmidt was the deputy of James Hansen, the nut who endorsed a book by Keith Farnish calling for the end of industrial civilisation.
Farnish writes
The only way to prevent global ecological collapse and thus ensure the survival of humanity is to rid the world of Industrial Civilization
and
Unloading essentially means the removal of an existing burden: for instance, removing grazing domesticated animals, razing cities to the ground, blowing up dams and switching off the greenhouse gas emissions machine. The process of ecological unloading is an accumulation of many of the things I have already explained in this chapter, along with an (almost certainly necessary) element of sabotage.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100023339/james-hansen-would-you-buy-a-used-temperature-data-set-from-this-man/
Hansen on Amazon
Keith Farnish has it right: time has practically run out, and the 'system' is the problem. Governments are under the thumb of fossil fuel special interests - they will not look after our and the planet's well-being until we force them to do so, and that is going to require enormous effort. --Professor James Hansen, GISS, NASA
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Times-Up-Uncivilized-Solution-Global/dp/190032248X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265053838&sr=8-1
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I think we can all imagine what 'system' Hansen would like to see, and it wouldn't be democracy