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Discussion > The Moral and Intellectual Poverty of Climate Alarm

Like clockwork.

Jan 2, 2020 at 11:41 PM | Phil Clarke

Why do you still back Gergis and her lies?

Jan 2, 2020 at 11:51 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Same old message from your posts:

"I am Phil Clarke, I is a w@anker."

Think about it, Clarke. You are a bad case.

Jan 3, 2020 at 12:20 AM | Unregistered CommenterCharly

You must read a lot of Oscar Wilde, Charley?

Jan 3, 2020 at 12:23 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

6 Conclusions
In this study we analysed processes which alter the atmo-
spheric content of carbon dioxide and δ
13
C of CO
2
using
artificial time series produced with a global carbon cycle box
model. For the investigation of these artificial time series
and their potential to be interpreted using the Keeling plot
approach, the absolute validity of our simulation scenarios
is not important. By using a simple carbon cycle model we
benefit from the fact that individual processes acting on the
carbon cycle can be switched on and off and their hypothet-
ical impacts can be analysed individually. We furthermore
developed a theoretical framework to extend the application
of the Keeling plot approach to long-term effects of terres-
trial carbon release.
All processes have been analysed...

Blah blah blah!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250396588_On_the_application_and_interpretation_of_Keeling_plots_in_paleo_climate_research_-_Deciphering_d_13C_of_atmospheric_CO_2_measured_in_ice_cores

Jan 3, 2020 at 2:03 AM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

Shorter Clipe:

I do not understand this science, therefore I deny this science.

Meanwhile, in Australia, people take shelter on the beaches, watching their homes burn.

I mean, really, when will you people get it? What will it take? Moral Poverty indeed.

Jan 3, 2020 at 2:19 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

'Meanwhile, in Australia, people take shelter on the beaches'

How Churchillian of you.

I blame Eco-Nazis.

Jan 3, 2020 at 2:29 AM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

Never let a crisis go to waste eh?

Care to regale us with some of your science about bush fires then Phil ? (whichever one this is)

thought not

Jan 3, 2020 at 9:42 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Oh, dear. Have you been taken in by this “bush fires are caused by climate change” tosh, Mr Clarke? Let us ignore that fire is an essential part of many forest eco-systems, which includes Australia’s forests, a fact that the aboriginal Australians knew about and used to their advantage. That this process has been interfered with by well-meaning but utterly ignorant “green” ideologues is why the fires are so fierce – the eco-systems have not been allowed to get rid of the developing fuel load as frequently as they are used to, thus the fires are now more intense. But – hey! – that’s because of climate change…. 🤦‍♀‍

Jan 3, 2020 at 10:31 AM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Phil Clarke – Alice in Climate Wonderland (or perhaps he is Humpty Dumpty) gives us climate science in a nutshell: mentioning uncomfortable facts is “tediously pedantic” and when he uses a word, such as “exactly”, it means just what he chooses it to mean.

Jan 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterJR

Have PC an WC (as in William Connolley - with an 'e') ever been seen together?

Jan 3, 2020 at 1:31 PM | Unregistered Commenterfred

I have rediscovered this site after a few years. I'm very pleased it is still active.

As a brief introduction, I'm appalled by lies about "Extreme weather" when most metrics show an improvement, Sea Level Rise when it is fairly steady at about 3mm pa., Record Temperatures when they are usually not or simply a consequence of warming from the LIA.

However, there is a major problem. Our government will eventually destroy our economy, industry and energy supplies on the alter of the Climate Change religion. We need to resist that.

Democratic challenge and normal debate are not an option because the BBC news and opinion shaping dominance bans any criticism or challenge. The BBC will not broadcast anything that criticises Climate change while it is happy to broadcast the most extreme and ridiculous claims of ER and Greta.

Even if criticisms can be lodged, The BBC will deploy people like Lord King and other alarmists to claim IPCC gospel to refute the claims.

This site has the potential to identify and neuter such claims and prepare a strong case to withstand BBC objections. Rather than spend hours on debating pointless trivia, this would be a worthwhile project.

I suggest that we challenge the BBC and Ofcom about their unfair climate balance and present them with a devastating case. Producing the devastating case would be a great project for this site.

Please give this some consideration. It might require some structure in terms of Project Manager, Chief Strategist, Comments Editor and and Facilitator in order to pose questions to the BH audience and select the best replies to build up a strong scientific case to make, if necessary, an ofcom level challenge to BBC climate policy.

Even if we do not take this to its ultimate purpose, preparing a dialogue that defeats the likes of Lord King will require research, definition and analyses, formulation of response and assessment of effectiveness. Such preparation is well within the capability of a wide audience of enthusiasts. We should use our vast resources to fight back.

Jan 3, 2020 at 8:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterSchrodinger's Cat

Excellent idea, Mr(?) Cat, were it not for one flaw – the “alarmists” are utterly immune to facts; whatever we might produce it will be ridiculed and refuted by those who will always argue from authority, as Lord King did, in his time given to him by the BBC to refute the earlier broadcast of a “denier” (can’t remember who it was, but know he gave a good dollop of genuine, easily checkable facts). Lord King was then wheeled out (why him? Who knows: it is not as if he is any sort of “scientist”...) – in the now-obligatory policy of the BBC, any time that anyone speaks against the AGW mantra, though (oddly), no counter-voice is ever brought out should a single AGW proponent speak – and proceeded to spew forth utter balderdash, none of which could be verified as all of which are untruths.

While we may fastidiously prepare well-researched and well-documented refutation of whatever the likes of Lord King splutter, the BBC will never publish it. We are fighting something here that is far more insidious, far more dangerous than for mere scientific integrity; we are fighting an ideology that is determined to establish a New World Order, and will do it by any means necessary, at any cost.

BoJo’s win, last month (and year), has halted the inevitability of terrible conflict, but has not halted the possibility.

Jan 3, 2020 at 9:31 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_King_(chemist)

Jan 4, 2020 at 1:37 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Are you sure, Mr Clarke? My own search with DuckDuckGo returned these options:

Mervyn King, Baron King of Lothbury - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_King,_Baron_King_of_Lothbury
King entered the House of Lords on 22 July 2013 as a crossbencher, taking the title Baron King of Lothbury, of Lothbury in the City of London. [79] [80] On 6 January 2016, King was appointed to be a Deputy Lieutenant of Kent by the Lord Lieutenant of the same county , The Viscount De L'Isle .

John King, Baron King of Wartnaby - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_King,_Baron_King_of_Wartnaby
John Leonard King, Baron King of Wartnaby (29 August 1917 - 12 July 2005) was a British businessman, who was noted for leading British Airways from an inefficient, nationalised company to one of the most successful airlines of recent times.

Lord King - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_King
Lord King may refer to: . John King, Baron King of Wartnaby (1917-2005), a former chairman of British Airways and Conservative life peer.; Mervyn King, Baron King of Lothbury (born 1948), former Governor of the Bank of England and chairman of its Monetary Policy Committee 2003-2013, now a Crossbench life peer.

Peter King, 1st Baron King - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_King,_1st_Baron_King
King married Anne Seys in 1704. They had six children: two daughters and four sons. Each of their sons succeeded in turn as Lord King, Baron of Ockham. In 1835 his great-great-grandson William King (1805-1893), married Ada Byron, the only daughter of Lord Byron and was later created Earl of Lovelace.

[…. A few diversionary entries….]

Lord King, Who Remade British Airways, Dies at 87 - The New ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/business/worldbusiness/lord-king-who-remade-british-airways-dies-at-87.html
Jul 13, 2005Lord King, a tough-minded executive who in 1981 took over British Airways when its initials were said to signify ''bloody awful,'' and turned it into a sleek, profitable airline attractive enough ...

Tom King, Baron King of Bridgwater - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_King,_Baron_King_of_Bridgwater
Thomas Jeremy King, Baron King of Bridgwater, CH, PC (born 13 June 1933) is a British politician.A member of the Conservative Party, he served in the Cabinet from 1983-92, and was the Member of Parliament (MP) for the constituency of Bridgwater in Somerset from 1970-2001.

Ignoring the rest of the long list, I went to Wikipedia:
Lord King may refer to:

• John King, Baron King of Wartnaby (1917–2005), a former chairman of British Airways and Conservative life peer.
• Mervyn King, Baron King of Lothbury (born 1948), former Governor of the Bank of England and chairman of its Monetary Policy Committee 2003–2013, now a Crossbench life peer.
• Tarsem King, Baron King of West Bromwich (1937–2013), a Labour local councillor 1979–2007, ennobled as Britain's first Sikh peer.
• Tom King, Baron King of Bridgwater (born 1933), a British Conservative politician who was Defence Secretary during the Gulf War (1990–91), made a life peer in 2001.
• Earl of Lovelace is a title in the Peerage of the United Kingdom, created in 1838 for William King-Noel, 8th Baron King.

Obviously, the first and third of these can be discounted, but I note no reference to a David King. Curious. What I have found is this:
David King (chemist)
Sir David Anthony King FRS FRSC FInstP (born 12 August 1939) is an Emeritus Professor in physical chemistry at the University of Cambridge…
Is Wikipedia behind the times, or is the BBC misattributing titles? Or are you looking for the wrong Lord King?

Also, given the usual comments about people with qualifications outside the narrow field of “climate science”, does the fact that he is, as you point out, a chemist justify his role as climate change spokesman?

Jan 4, 2020 at 9:52 AM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

You were vague on the detail but what you're describing sounds like the linked interviews on the Today Programme with Matt Ridley and Sir David King, December 28th.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000cpwb (around 1:33).

You described the former Chief Scientific Advisor to the government, a professor with 500 peer-reviewed papers and multiple awards to his name as 'no kind of scientist'.

What chance compiling a denier bible when you can't get basic facts right?

Jan 4, 2020 at 11:51 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

What chance compiling a denier bible when you can't get basic facts right?

Jan 4, 2020 at 11:51 AM Phil Clarke

Do explain your support for Gergis. She was Peer Reviewed.

Jan 4, 2020 at 12:53 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Apologies for my error, Mr Clarke – I have a more limited internet access at present, so have not the opportunity for rapid research that I am used to; however, I am sure that the original article in which I read about the programme described him as “Lord King”, and who am I to argue?

Anyhoo… my final point still stands: given the usual comments about people with qualifications outside the narrow field of “climate science”, does the fact that he is a chemist justify his role as climate change spokesman?

Oh, and, no, your link does not work for me. Perhaps it doesn't work when not in the UK.

Jan 4, 2020 at 2:58 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

" .... does the fact that he is a chemist justify his role as climate change spokesman?"

Jan 4, 2020 at 2:58 PM Radical Rodent

According to the BBC's experts, St Greta is far more qualified to answer that.

Jan 4, 2020 at 3:49 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Oh – and then your link takes me to a character-assassination article of Mr Ridley by George Monbiot, commonly known as “Moonbat”. Gee…. Thanks… 🙄

Jan 4, 2020 at 4:01 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Odd, I thought you were dead against ad-hominem arguments..... LOL.

Jan 4, 2020 at 5:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Yes, I am… but… did I make ad homs, or were they just observations…? 😏

Jan 4, 2020 at 6:25 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Mr Clarke – you never fail, do you? As usual, you merely attack the messenger, with no real reference to the message, other than blah blah bla-blah blah blah…..

Dec 8, 2019 at 8:57 PM Radical Rodent

a character-assassination article of Mr Ridley by George Monbiot, commonly known as “Moonbat”. Gee…. Thanks…

Jan 4, 2020 at 4:01 PM Radical Rodent

Monbiot made many points, the main ones being that Ridley's advocacy of applying free-market libertarian solutions to the environment would likely be as disastrous as his advocacy of free-market libertarian solutions when as a Director he applied them to the running of Northern Rock, and his book The Rational Optimist is strewn with significant errors and distortions.

Care to respond to those points or do you have some more funny names?

Jan 4, 2020 at 8:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

The article is pretty much a character-assassination of Mr Ridley, and George Monbiot is often referred to as “Moonbat”... What is your point?

Jan 4, 2020 at 9:02 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Taxpayers should not be funding professional liars

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/02/how-billionaires-tom-steyer-and-michael-bloomberg-corrupted-climate-science/#59c38674702c

Jan 4, 2020 at 10:30 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

The article is pretty much a character-assassination of Mr Ridley,

That's OK, there is no obligation on you to deal with the substance of Monbiot's arguments if you don't want to. Here are some of them, in case anyone else want's to engage with the 'Moonbat'.

The Rational Optimist is riddled with excruciating errors and distortions. Ridley claims, for example, that “every country that tried protectionism” after the Second World War suffered as a result. He cites South Korea and Taiwan as “countries that went the other way”, and experienced miraculous growth(11). In reality, the governments of both nations subsidised key industries, actively promoted exports and used tariffs and laws to shut out competing imports. In both countries the state owned all the major commercial banks, allowing it to make decisions about investment(12,13,14).

He maintains that “Enron funded climate alarmism”(15). The reference he gives demonstrates nothing of the sort, nor can I find evidence for this claim elsewhere(16). He says that “no significant error has come to light” in Bjorn Lomborg’s book The Sceptical Environmentalist(17). In fact it contains so many significant errors that an entire book – The Lomborg Deception by Howard Friel – was required to document them(18).

Ridley asserts that average temperature changes over “the last three decades” have been “relatively slow”(19). In reality the rise over this period has been the most rapid since instrumental records began(20). He maintains that “eleven of thirteen populations” of polar bears are “growing or steady”(21). There are in fact 19 populations of polar bears. Of those whose fluctuations have been measured, one is increasing, three are stable and eight are declining(22).

He uses blatant cherry-picking to create the impression that ecosystems are recovering: water snake numbers in Lake Erie, fish populations in the Thames, bird’s eggs in Sweden(23). But as the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment shows, of 65 global indicators of human impacts on biodiversity, only one – the extent of temperate forests – is improving. Eighteen are stable, in all the other cases the impacts are increasing(24).

Northern Rock grew rapidly by externalising its costs, pursuing money-making schemes that would eventually be paid for by other people. Ridley encourages us to treat the planet the same way. He either ignores or glosses over the costs of ever-expanding trade and perpetual growth. His timing, as BP fails to contain the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, is unfortunate. Like the collapse of Northern Rock, the Deepwater Horizon disaster was made possible by weak regulation. Ridley would weaken it even further, leaving public protection to the invisible hand of the market.

Jan 5, 2020 at 12:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke