Discussion > Diesel Eco-good or Eco bad ? ... from Unthreaded
telegraph in March 2014 British fuel tax highest in Europe
stewgreen
This site: http://www.petrolprices.com/the-price-of-fuel.html puts the price difference down to the product cost. Apparently Diesel costs more to refine.
Or may be the oil companies charge more for it on the grounds that its energy content is higher.
mikeh
Apparently Diesel costs more to refine.
SLBTM
In France diesel is significantly cheaper than petrol. From memory about 1.33€ /litre for diesel and 1.53€ /litre for petrol
Or may be the oil companies charge more for it on the grounds that its energy content is higher.
May 19, 2014 at 10:55 PM | Registered Commentermikeh
Someone said that it is not refined in UK so has to be imported. That sounded surprising to me as an explanation of the price difference.
Something somewhere in the free market system is not working as theory says it should.
Martin A
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html
Check this story out from The AA website .
A mate of mine was going to trade in his old Petrol Ford Focus for a Diesel CMax lmore space forCabbing and parcel deliveries.But advised stick to petrol .Regulation Diesel Filters are 2 grand each and only last 3 years, no good in stop start in town and only effective for Motorway driving.Town driving car engines dont ever get to generate enough power to blast the particulates through so they just clog up.
Gas Turbine Hybrid with 4 wheel electric drive probably the way forward which brings us back to our old friend Mr Shale.
jamspid
Martin A; I was talking about the product price - before fuel duty, VAT and delivery charges are added. According to the website I referenced, petrol is about 47p per litre and diesel around 52p.
The price difference in France is due to a different tax regime - as I understand it - which is a legacy of a big push to diesel many years ago to cut down oil imports. The difference used to be much greater.
As for why it costs more to produce diesel than petrol....there are probably as many explanations as for the "pause" in global warming!
Certainly Europe's refineries are old so were designed for a different product mix which may mean additional treatment is needed to increase the proportion of diesel. Changes in the mix of crudes used as feedstock could be another reason: more expensive grades needed for better diesel output. Tighter regulations could be another cause with the move to lower sulphur in diesel.
It would be very interesting to hear from someone familiar with the refining business.
mikeh
Diesel is a great fuel for commercial / agricultural vehicles which require lots of torque. I think too many diesel cars in cities are definitely contributing to particulate pollution and is a very dumb idea. The newer "clean" diesels are clean for a few years, but the older they get the bigger the black clouds of smoke they blow.
I think natural gas (NG) (CNG specifically) would be the best fuel option for city vehicles. Existing petrol (and I think diesel too) can be converted to run on CNG quite easily. NG engines have similar power output to petrol engines, they burn much more cleanly than any other fuel, they can be refueled in minutes and they are very safe in accidents. The only drawback is range which is a bit less than what you would get from a tank of petrol or diesel. A friend of mine had a pickup truck which he converted to run on CNG, he ran it for years with no problems at all. I can never understand why nobody pushes for CNG fueled vehicles.
Also I have a quick question and I'm hoping one of you fine people can help me find an answer. I have a sneaking suspicion that North American gasoline is less energy dense than European gasoline. I say this for several reasons, I have driven the same model cars in Europe and North America, with the North American version having a much bigger engine , however they were no more powerful than the European version. Also the same cars get less mileage in North America (albeit with the bigger engine), the only thing that makes sense to me is that there is a difference between the fuels. I know the US gasoline has a lower octane rating than European petrol even when taking into account different octane rating system they use, but this does not necessarily have any bearing on the energy density of the fuels. Oh yeah, and gasoline smells much different to petrol. Anybody have any ideas?
kilroywashere
"So what reason was given for diesel being more expensive than petrol in UK?"
If other things are equal Diesel has more energy in it than petrol so I would expect it to be a bit more than petrol.
Rob Burton
Diesel story I don't think we learned owt new
..paraphrased :
D is 7p more expensive than unleaded
but in Europe .lists 10 countries where D is cheaper
Diesel use increased so by 2005 diesel had outsold petrol..
(I think gov put up the duty but he didnt mention that)*
and market pressures also ...as we don't have enough diesel refineries so import it.
* anyway now they are taxed the same
[Fuel Duty - pound per litre (unless stated)
On and after 6 pm on 23 March 2011
** no sign it has been changed since **
Unleaded petrol 0.5795
Heavy oil (diesel) 0.5795
Bio-ethanol 0.5795
Biodiesel 0.5795
Biodiesel for non road use 0.1114
Biodiesel blended with gas oil not for road fuel use 0.1114
Road fuel gases
Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) 0.3161 £/kg
Road fuel natural gas including biogas 0.2470 £/kg ]
Road tax VED
well they look at the CO2 emissions
annd since diesel less it should be in a lower band
Europe D €1.30 petrol €1.50 average cos politicians set the duty lower and now can't afford to change it up
raises D is better for CO2 but worse for particulate pollution
speaker philip gong RAC foundation