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Discussion > EV charger stations (for electric vehicles & cars)

A new discussion broke out so I post info from last year

Last year there were just 4,100 electric vehicles (EVs) registered in the UK, while over the last three years, local authorities have spent over £7m on charging points. That equates to a subsidy of nearly £1750 per EV according to recent research by the BBC.

BBC Radio 4's You and Yours programme (click here) recently undertook Freedom of Information requests on electric charging points with local authorities in the UK. It came up with some interesting findings.

Of the 139 authorities which said they had charging points, over one in six (25) had at least one that hadn't been used at all in the last year. And less than a third of local authorities (41) had one or more charging point that was used more than once a week. In other words, many charging points aren't being used much if at all.

This should come as no surprise. At the moment there are more charging points than there are EVs. That infrastructure may be needed so as to allay 'range anxiety' amongst potential users, but given that many users of EVs may anyway charge up at home and at work, in reality the wider charging infrastructure may not be heavily used - unless is focuses on fast chargers to quickly give cars a boost. .. From Birmingham Post

daily Mail Electric Farce
on BBC News website

Jun 5, 2014 at 11:54 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

You and Yours has in the past reported negatively/realistically on EVs but this May they had a prog basically pushing them ..why was that ? Well posts like this went on the net beforehand Like this

Are you an EV enthusiast and want to air your thoughts on BBC ...
www.leaftalk.co.uk › ... › EV Charging Infrastructure
13 May 2014 - 3 posts
She would like all EV drivers to meet up at her various Charging points for ... and want to air your thoughts on BBC Radio4's You and Yours?
Another Example

Jun 5, 2014 at 12:05 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Actually in 2010 they did massively plug electrica cars in 4 special dedicated episodes and a blog about driving thru Europe, but they often had problems with slower than expected charging and finding charger places

Jun 5, 2014 at 12:11 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

If there is a large take up electric vehicles surely one of the problems, which will require a smart meter to control, is people coming home with a discharged car and plugging it in to the recharge point at a time of high demand on the grid. I don't believe that someone will pop out at midnight to connect to the charging point just to keep the energy suppliers happy.

Jun 5, 2014 at 12:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

Heh...


is it unreasonable to expect smart meters to be smart enough to only allow wind and solar supplied electrons into EV batteries? - I think it only fair myself.

If you can afford a Tesla = you buy a nice 120kVA generator to go in the garage with it :-)

Jun 5, 2014 at 1:59 PM | Registered Commentertomo

note this is typical GreenThinking
"man all you guys that don't believe that global catastrophe is coming soon,
you know your problem ?
...you are just so negative !"
.. cos to them everything green is somehow magically fantastic .. they don't consider things that if you are going to have fast-charging then that sudden massive load is going to put a strain on the grid .. they really think megawatts can be sorted by by the few hundreds of watts you get by smartmeter switching 6 nearby fridges off.

Remember EV = 'coal powered' .. (or 99% if you add in all the windpower and then deduct the energy wind generation costs in terms of manufacturing extra grid and components)

Jun 5, 2014 at 4:58 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I know I could pull all this information off the web eventually but I'd guess people here will have the answers at their fingertips - where are they actually at with EVs currently?

i.e.
Typical range? How badly affected by aging batteries?
Fast charging- how fast is fast? Does it affect battery life? What does it cost? (Is it subsidised?)

A benchmark - my current diesel vehicle does about 350 miles between fillups which take about 5 minutes. (And can carry up to 1 tonne which I doubt many EVs can.)

Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterNW

As in all things "Green", there is much misinformation in the public domain. A while back I read an article on the Tesla "supercharging" stations in the US which noted that these were equipped with roof-top solar panels and therefore accepted that the power was "renewable". No one did any checking on the relevant figures of solar output versus the charging load, let alone ask the obvious question about night-time motoring.
Tesla used to promote the obvious alternative of battery-swapping, with the claim that it could be done in a similar timescale to filling a tank. There was a lot of comment to the effect that this is impractical with the current models and it seems to have dropped off the radar.
Some of the car mags are running EVs on long-term tests now so it will be interesting to see how they get on.
With the UK's mix of power generation I suspect that a "well-to-wheel" assessment would find that a modern diesel beats an EV on CO2.

Jun 5, 2014 at 10:59 PM | Registered Commentermikeh

The Tesla battery swapping thing - there are US incentives for EVs (maybe only in some states) which are greater if the EVs support battery swapping in under a specified time. IIRC Tesla claimed theirs could do it and did a demo to prove it but hadn't at the time made a production model which could do it.

Jun 5, 2014 at 11:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterNW

mikeh

120kW of solar panels here on first solar circumnavigator That's a big roof on the charger shed:-)

Jun 6, 2014 at 1:45 AM | Registered Commentertomo

When I see the electrical loads involved, I realise why the charging points are near the building entrance.
That is probably where the electrical incomer is for the building. The further from the source, the bigger the cable required to meet regulations for voltage drop. (As well as more digging required)
They are not on the petrol forecourt for obvious reasons.

Jun 6, 2014 at 2:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterNW

This is the ultimate Prius.

More seriously Power Factor correction came up on unthreaded, is it a problem in charging electrical vehicles?

Jun 6, 2014 at 9:56 AM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

NW; the Tesla battery-swap demo is shrouded in suspicion, going by comments on a few motoring blogs. Apparently it was done behind screens and without independent witnesses. Several mechanical types commented that, having seen the structure of the car and how the battery is mounted, rapid replacement seemed impractical.
If/when I ever get to see one in the flesh, it will be interesting to have a close look.
Battery-swap is probably the only viable solution to the charging and range issues at the moment. But it has many problems of its own: inventory costs; provision of specialist "service stations" with skilled fitters etc; how to control for mistreated units; etc..
IIRC, Tesla's batteries are guaranteed for 10 years. Since replacement costs are >k$10 (from what I have read), the cars won't be worth much as they age.

Jun 6, 2014 at 11:49 PM | Registered Commentermikeh

Tesla seem to be leading the charge (sorry) as they have by far the best range (claimed).
However they are not cheap: I have just read a review of a high-spec Tesla S which sells for $97,000 in the US.
Here are a couple of excerpts:
<< The genius of its delivery is all about instant, perfect accelerator response. Flatten it and the Model S takes off from a standing start with the ferocity of a super-saloon. We timed the car at a 4.7sec two-way average to 60mph, which is marginally slower than Tesla’s claim. But it’s also faster than the Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG we timed in 2011 – a car that was burning fossil fuel at a rate of 7.8mpg.
The Tesla Model S can’t sustain being flat out for very long, however. For short bursts of full-power acceleration, the electric powertrain works brilliantly. But we couldn’t complete one flying lap of the dry handling circuit before the battery, inverter and electric motor tripped into safe mode and cut peak output by at least 50 per cent.
Including our performance tests, the car averaged 411Wh/mile overall but, out on the road, we frequently saw trip economy of less than 300Wh/mile. On a typical motorway run, expect a range of 220 to 250 miles. If you’re prepared to cruise at a 50-60mph A-road pace, 300 miles would be routinely achievable.
That’s about three times the real-world operational range of any EV we’ve tested before. It won’t be enough for everyone, particularly considering the time that the car takes to charge (15 hours from a 32-amp UK public charging point; half that from a fitted high-output Tesla home charger). >>
....and if you only have a standard 13 Amp socket it will presumably take over 30 hours.

Jun 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM | Registered Commentermikeh

The BBC reckons that Tesla are considering sharing their technology. BBC Story

mikeh
I bet that test was carried out in California with no need for heat, light and wipers. Personally I think hybrids make more sense for certain types of users, e.g. F1 drivers in the overtaking zone.

Jun 9, 2014 at 8:19 AM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

Should't the performance of today's electric race cars given an indication of tomorrows on the street ?
Tho we don't hear much about Formula-E these days
Season sttarts in September in China

Jun 9, 2014 at 6:48 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

This is crazy. They are supposed to be producing "green" transport and they come up with a sports car with ridiculous acceleration ability. Of course the motoring hacks love it, all they care about is stupid levels of performance and handling, which is why the bog standard shopping hatchback has low profile tyres, "sports" suspension and a tuned engine with no torque and a power curve like a cliff face which has a horrible ride on anything but a billiard table and accelerates like treacle because the average British driver will never exceed 3000 rpm below which it produces about 2 horsepower.

I suspect ultimate range and weight carrying ability is much more difficult to do with electric technology.

Militant greens are of course keen on the small and light short distance vehicle approach, however powered, because they don't do much that public transport can't, so are a step in the right direction as far as they are concerned.
They hate big 4x4s and the like because they do things public transport can never do.

Jun 10, 2014 at 12:46 AM | Unregistered CommenterNW