My summary of Alan's position:

- The BBC puts out some wonderful stuff and is worth every penny of the licence fee. Alan would happily pay more.

- BH commenters are largely out to destroy the BBC

- BH commenters gang up aggressively/with hostility on anyone who expresses support for the BBC.

- BH commenters are illogical, write at length in a wild vehement way [=rant] on this topic.

- BH commenters have twisted/misrepresented what Alan has said.

- Anybody who does not watch/listen to the BBC is not entitled/qualified to discuss/debate its value

- What Alan values about the BBC (ie what he watches/listens to) is his own business and he's not going to reveal it.

Alan, is that a reasonable summary? Have I missed any key points or misrepresented things?

Stewgreen. I very much doubt your last statement, based upon recent experience. Your mind seems closed.

Martin A. When are you folks going to get the message?. Leave me alone. I've finished being your football.

Understanding. -5

Empathy : batting zero.

This is a summary of a programme on Radio 4 Extra today: Life Begins at Crawley - 11.15am and 9.15pm. "Eleanor Prendergast has some tough decisions to make when her husband, a Tory MP, is put in jail for fiddling his expenses." I believe six MPs were actually jailed over the expenses scandal. All Labour! One Tory peer - Lord Hanningfield. Yet whenever it is mentioned all we hear about are duck houses and moats. Which involved Tories. No mention of mortgage fraud, flipping houses (which involved the Labour Chancellor and Home Secretary) and so on. There seems to have been and still is a continuing effort by the BBC to suggest that all the fiddling was carried out by Tories.

SandyS. Would very much have liked to discuss your suggested method of funding the BBC. However, I cannot for two reasons.

1) I'm afraid of being set up (sorry paranoia, but past experience tells).

2) Even if I responded to your seemingly rational discussion prompt, I know I'll be besieged by the anti-BBC league with their preconceived dogma.

MartinA YOU DO NOT UNERSTAND ENGLISH PERHAPS?

Understanding. FAILING GRADE

Martin A. When will you realize you cannot succeed? I can keep this up forever.

Logic Index -5
Empathy quotient the pits.

"When will you realize you cannot succeed? I can keep this up forever."

WARNING....child on board

Logic Index -5

Give up?

I notice that those over at the anti EU thread seem to understand the situation better. Oh but some there have the same names. Odd that.

Welcome to new contributor Lurker. Enjoy (I am).

Alan Kendall
I was thinking "out loud", it seems to me that most BH commenters object to having to pay for the BBC whether they watch it or not and whether they agree with the content of the programmes. Pay to view seems to have taken over the viewing of sport, films and some documentaries either by event or annual subscription such a solution would satisfy a lot of people who are not happy about paying the licence fee for various reasons. Unlikely to happen. The dumbing down of BBC content rather than the licence fee itself is my major complaint.

As it happens I get very poor value for my French TV permit in terms of hours of French TV viewed. But strangely I don't have any strong feelings about having to pay it.

Anyway you don't have to answer if you'd rather not, it's fine by me.

" Enjoy (I am)."

Shame really!

AK is now fully formed as a punk troll.
DNFT

SandyS. I think there will come a time when we might converse without experiencing the tirade currently operating. Seems to be weakening a bit (I hope).

Hunter

Logic Index. -5

UYNWARH

Martin A.

What part of "O.K. Alan as you wish" (1.23pm) was I not meant to understand?

Martin A
I have a TV, two in fact, as the internet here is a bit flaky at times although better than it was. We have a couple of dishes.

Saladman, Wondered how long it would take you to emerge from your hole.

To all

Really strange to be called a troll. Trolls, as I understand them, are people who come uninvited onto a site, spread untruths, twist logic and generally (and usually unsuccessfully) try to cause harm. Now let us examine my role here:

1.Without my input this string would not exist. It was based on (inaccurately reported) comments I made over on unthreaded. I was invited here to confirm those comment. NOT troll behaviour.

2. Expecting a reasonable discussion/debate I did contribute and initially this thread was normal. NOT troll behaviour.

3. Quite rapidly I was overwhelmed by anti BBC comments, which became, in my view, more and more strident. Furthermore I found what I had written was being distorted, mocked, and even appropriated (with my own position now stated to be the opposite). I protested at this behaviour. NOT troll behaviour.

4. Realizing that you were not going to stop, I ASKED you to stop. I realized too late that you were treating me and my views as your latest plaything, which you didn't want to lose. You didn't stop, if anything it intensified. My behaviour NOT trollish, yours on the other hand?

5. After unsuccessfully asking to be left alone (troll behaviour? I think not) I seriously considered just departing BH. But then thought I will not be driven out. I devised my system which has riled you up so awfully well. I explained that this was my shorthand system, easy to operate, that expressed my considered judgement upon what you wrote about what I had previously written, or the increasingly troll like comments you were making about me. The system had two advantages to me a) it gave you little to distort, and b) it was my opinion, stated to be such, and therefore fair comment. Your reaction to it - as expected, slow to realize what now confronted you, then a slowdown and then a brief quiescence.

6. Then poor old Saladman comes blustering in late, and calls me a troll, perhaps not understanding it had been said before (confirming his tardiness).

That is my case, your behaviour leaves much to be desired but I would never call you trolls. I resorted to my behaviour out of self defence. I appologize for unleashing it on the world because I do know it can now used by your real opponents. I have not been able to come up with aa countermeasure.

Am I still welcome at BH or not? Your choice.

A further word to the Shropshire ***** (add as you think as appropriate). To my recollection, this is the 4th completely unprovoked personal attack you have made upon me. Do you have an axe to grind, or perhaps we have past history. Do try to unburden yourself.