Martin A

This seems to be firming up as a concept.

England leaves the UK and the EU.

Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Gibralter remain in the EU as the Reunited Kingdom.

We even have a possible leader. Nicola Sturgeon is the most impressive politician in the country at the moment.

England and Wales minus London leaving the UK would suit the demographics quite well. Since the Independence referendum there are probably a majority in England outside London who don't like Scotland and Scots, who don't like London and Londoners, who don't trust Banks and Bankers and who don't want immigration. I have no idea how the Welsh feel about Scotland's place in the UK.

Are we really being serious here? If so let's go the whole hog and revert to the ancient kingdoms of Mercia, Wessex, Northumbria and the like. Each could leave or remain according to the referendum demographics. But would you live in Dumnonia or even Damnonia*? An additional advantage: we would never again suffer the indignity of supporting an England football team.

* Actually part of Scotland.

Alan kendall
Personally I wasn't being totally serious but there's an element of logic to it.

With regard to the step backwards we might take, isn't England still the Seven Kingdoms (plus Cornwall) it always was? East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria, Sussex and Wessex. In my travels round the UK those divisions seem natural as do the four Kingdoms of Scotland, Pictland, Dál Riata, Strathclyde, Bernicia and post Viking age the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland. There are noticeable difference between all these in accents, food, building styles and attitudes to life. I think DNA tests have shown little movement of people until the industrial revolution, the most diverse mix of DNA is in industrial conurbations the least in the rural communities. Perhaps politicians would be wise to acknowledge these differences.

Unfortunately we English have an exaggerated sense of fair play.

It has rapidly become apparent that the Brexit case was grossly optimistic and leaving the EU is a negative sum game.

We will leave, despite this, because a majority voted for it.😕

All that bullshit about being able to cherrypick what we wanted from the EEA and the single market without the free movement provisions?

Angela Merkel shot that down definitively this afternoon.

She said in her speech

"no cherrypicking"

Three days is enough.

Ryanair has cancelled investment in Belfast. Easy Jet is planning to move out of the UK. The Tata Steel deal, Hinckley Point, the Heathrow expansion and HS2 are in doubt.

Nissan,Toyota and Honda are twitchy. The Sunderland voters who voted Leave to protect their jobs at Nissan from immigrants may end up with no jobs to protect.

It is already apparantly that the Leavers badly misjudged the attitude of EU politicians.

This is not going to be an amicable separation, it will be a messy divorce.

Be careful what you wish for. You have got Brexit, but it is not what you hoped for.

Why is Angela Merkel able to anticipate the results of negotiations she is not in charge of. Nobody, even the Germans, voted for her to be in charge of the EU. If she is de facto in charge, and I can't vote her out, well, that's why I voted leave.

She's not the boss of me.

EM, or should I say Eeyore, you really are a glass completely empty person.

Rhoda

Angela Merkel is the leader of the largest economy in the EU. The attitude of her government will have a great influence on whatever deal emerges. She is now royally pissed off with the UK and in no mood to compromise.

You are dependant on her goodwill to achieve the cherrypicked deal that the Leavers hoped for. There are now two chances of achieving that, fat and slim.

She is not the boss of you, but you have just handed her enormous power to determine your fate.

She had more power to determine my fate before. But now the power is mine, if the political establishment of my own country don't mess it up. We'd be better off with no deal with Germany than with a bad one. We can trade on WTO terms.

She is not the boss of you, but you have just handed her enormous power to determine your fate.

Jun 28, 2016 at 11:56 PM | Entropic man

EM, the EU ignored the UK for years, and UK leaders ignored the population of the UK.

Has anything happened to change the EU's mind? Two major UK political parties are looking for new leaders (even if one current leader thinks he has a cloak of impregnability)

There is 97% Confidence that respect for the EU will continue to diminish, until the EU acknowledges it's past mistakes.

Why have you used "you" twice, and "your"? Have you now decided to distance yourself from the problems you have helped to create?

stewgreen
Looking to the future do you think it likely that a Norwegian type agreement would satisfy the people who voted leave?
As I understand it Norway has full access to single market, obliged to make a financial contribution and accept majority of EU laws, free movement applies as it does in the EU. Even with a limit to immigration, as suggested, a majority of those who voted leave won't be happy.

I'm getting a little tired of the negativity surrounding the Brexit vote, and the negotiation that will now have to take place with the EU.

Some simple facts should cheer people up. Access to the single market would be nice, but is not essential. If we have to pay the Common External Tariff to gain access to it, then so be it. All countries outside the EU are currently in that situation. It doesn't stop our shops (and presumably shops all over Europe) being full of Chinese products).

If we have to pay a tariff to access the single market, then we should impose a reciprocal tariff on European goods. Given our annual trade deficit with the EU of £65bn p.a., that should help nicely to shore up the national finances.

But in any event, people who say it's the Norwegian model or nothing for gaining access to the single market aren't living in the real world. With all due respect to Norway, we are not Norway, we are the Eu's biggest trading partner bar none. Our position is different. Whoever negotiates with the EU on our behalf needs to understand the strength of our position.

The fact that Merkel has said "no cherry picking" is irrelevant. First, she doesn't run the EU, even if she thinks she does, and even if her tax payers are now going to have to fund it virtually unaided. Second, it's a negotiating position, an opening gambit. Just because she says it now, it doesn't mean it's the EU's final position. It almost certainly isn't, and if it is, then such intransigence and determination to shoot themselves in the foot demonstrates why we were right to leave.

If common sense prevails on both sides, we will give them free access to our market for their goods, and they will give us free access to theirs for our financial services (and goods, for what the latter's worth). if that doesn't happen, then the EU really is run by idiots, and we're well out of it.

Mark Hodgson
I'm really keen that the UK gets a good deal and rises to the 3rd richest nation on earth I don't think a Leicester City is possible. Perhaps when Hollande is no longer President de la Republique the chances may improve greatly, so delaying triggering article 50 until early next year might be a good thing. I don't think the WTO option has any merit whatsoever Tariffs have to be applied by both sides, it is against the rules to have different tariffs without a trade agreement.

What is needed is a UK opening gambit by somebody.

With all the gloom expected by the Remainers, today’s Stock and Exchange Rate Markets make for interesting reading, but will probably be overlooked by the BBC. The unelected, unaccountable and hence undemocratic leaders of the EU will not like this.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/marketdata/index.html

As far as future trade deals with the EU; up to April this year we export £12bn to EU countries (39%) and import £19bn (61%), do you think this trade is going to stop?

If tariffs are imposed who will lose most?

<https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/EU_and_Non-EU_Data.aspx>

NeilC
Long may the recovery continue, it'll have to. The current $/£ exchange rate is about 10Cents (6%) down on where it has been for most of 2016. Oil too is recovering and is around the same cost per barrel as it's been since May. So yes please keep recovering and make even more interesting and comforting reading, I'm with you on that.

The people of the UK and Europe will lose most if tariffs are imposed. It's something, especially WTO style tariff rules, to be avoided if at all possible which is why I hope that someone is planning a sensible strategy rather than winning an election to be leader of their party, or thinking of rude things to say about the European Parliament.

For example under a WTO arrangement would it be more profitable for Toyota to ship cars to the EU from Brazil or Canada rather than Burnaston?

Hope for the best - plan for the worst.

Sandy S

We may have been on different sides over the referendum, but I agree with your last comment, and also with this from the one before that:

"What is needed is a UK opening gambit by somebody."

I just wish I had more confidence that we had a politician capable of doing what's necessary.