SandyS, I think many of the points you make about the changing economy and nature of the "work" environment were correctly identified by Blair and Mandelson, hence the rebranding of Labour as "New Labour", and the appeal to "Mondeo Man".

The "Old Trots" and traditional Union Members are now running Labour, with support from younger naive and idealistic champagne socialists , having toppled New Labour.

What the Labour Party have not realised is that most of the electorate do not identify with Old Trots, Union Activists and University educated idealists who remain clueless idiots. I am not a Labour Party supporter, but I do think it is appalling that the Labour Party has been hijacked by those with minority interests for their own selfish needs. It has become a Party of elitists, backed up by an angry mob, which is ironic, because that is how Corbyn's Labour wish to portray UKIP. Corbyn's Labour seems rather hostile to Jews aswell.

golf charlie

I used to be a Labour Party supporter, but am no longer. As I age, I question the extent to which my views are changing, but I can still get angry about issues that lefties should get angry about, so I suspect I haven't yet drifted far to the right. So far as the Labour Party is concerned I think it left me rather more than I left it.

I think your analysis of where Labour is going wrong, in the final para of your post at 12.07 pm pretty much nails it.

Mark Hodgson, the problem for UK Labour and "Progressives" within the EU and USA, is that their traditional core support from the industrial and manual workforce now speak using Indian and Chinese languages, and have no UK vote.

Climate Change legislation exported all the jobs. Those who lost their jobs are not very happy.

Did the Scottish party really get a third of the votes of UKIP and fifty-six times the number of MPs?

Heh, A Democracy if you can keep it.
================

"Did the Scottish party really get a third of the votes of UKIP and fifty-six times the number of MPs?"

Yes!

Mark Hodgson , golf charlie
I've always thought of myself as a bit right of centre, but having spent most of my working life in manufacturing often spending most of my day on or at close quarters to the shopfloor I've generally been in favour of what you might call traditional Unions and Labour as organisations which should work to improve the lot of workers who individually have very little clout. The likes of Red Robbo and the current Southern Rail dispute do more harm than good to the workers. I've been called out on strike several times and you never make up the lost money, but on the other hand unions have also protected me and my colleagues from management excesses. One of the problems was/is that management often didn't listen to the problems and concerns of the workforce, who in modern parlance were stakeholders in the business as well. Leading to the shock of a Brexit type vote on what the considered to be perfectly reasonable proposals. Politicians fall into the same trap.

The one thing I am truly grateful to a Trade Union for is my pension, after the last takeover we yet again had to transfer to the new owners scheme. As usual this meant a reduction in pension on retirement, a little publised problem. Three young, in their 20s, people from HR/Pension came to tell about the wonderful new scheme we'd all be joining. I can still remember their inability to grasp the anger when it became clear that everyone in the room would be considerably worse off on retirement. Only by at lot of negotiation between Union and management were we given a "No Worse Off Guarantee", whether I am or not isn't really clear but had there not been a union involved I certainly would have been worse off.

Had the Chancellors who changed state retirement age for women been in a similar meeting they might have been lucky to escape with their lives. Changing something as important as that without giving time to make new effect plans is a great betrayal by politicians.

Mark Hodgson/Kim
It's a problem the Liberals and later Lib?Dems have complained about for decades. Most politicians and voters were perfectly happy with the FPTP system until the 21st century and a plethora of parties being under represented started to make a noise about the issue. There are three now, Lib-Dem, UKIP and Green whether or not you like them it is a problem which could lead to really major issues for democracy in the UK.

I suspect the big two haven't learnt any lessons from Brexit, just as Mrs Thatcher didn't learn anything from failing to get inner city seats, rather she wanted to re-educate those voters. A problem all politicians have, they know they are right and it's the rest of the world that is wrong.

SandyS, the BREXIT vote revealed that half the UK Electorate were sufficiently unhappy with Libs, Labs and Cons, to vote against their recommendations and reject the status quo, despite all the dire warnings from the BBC.

The EU does seem keen to punish the UK, and rather than frightening other EU Electorates, it seems to be demonstrating that the EU only cares about itself, not the people who pay for it.

I don't know whether the Brexit vote is considered a success in terms of Proportional Representation or FPTP.