gc
that is all true - but doesn't go *nearly* far enough - it is a *very* oppressive place and not just thuggish at the top by any measure.
An absolutely frightful crowd
Oct 20, 2018 at 1:12 AM | tomo

That is the impression I got about Climate Scientists, particularly their abuse of the Peer Review process.

It s simply amazing how this bloated thread swallows and engorges other topics that have, at most, a tenuous link with the GREAT ONE. Post after post are absorbed that could easily, and perhaps profitably have been transferred elsewhere. Now we are discussing the Saudis and what a self-imposed and ungrateful refugee should do about suing his hosts (yes their are, or were, links to Trump, but we are not discussing those). One of the few anchors, dragging you back to the thread topic is Phil Clarke, who brings you all ranting and raving in defence of the GREATEST ONE, regardless of what offence he has committed - like the latest Trump praise for a Republican who carried out a. physical assault upon a reporter. Fantastic lack of bias folks (NOT).

Supertroll, Ecuador and Saudi Arabia DO present challenges to Trump as a person, President, World Leader etc. His deeds and words have not caused either problem, but he has to deal with the consequences.

The Moslem World of politics, rivalries, feuds, personalities, corruption, jealousy etc is rather more complex than most in the UK understand. I know sufficient to know that it is far more complex than anything I think I understand. Sunni v Shi ite is just a starter.

The Cold War rarely involved the US and USSR exchanging gunfire. It was done via proxies. A similar "war" is being fought between the Saudis and Iran. The US, UK, EU and most of the rest of the World would suffer if Iran became undisputed champions of the Moslem vision for the rest of the world.

You claimed Gergis proved Mann.
Was that a deliberate mistake or lie, by you, Gergis, and Mann?

You made this claim multiple times, it is not true. I actually said that the Gergis reconstruction has a hockey stick curve, which is the case. It could not prove the original Mann HS studies, as they were Northern Hemisphere and Gergis covers Australasia. As I have pointed out multple times.

See here and here for alternative views on Mr Montford's book and its factual errors.

Gosh, now Phil bloats this thread with material having nothing to do with the GREAT ONE.

GolfCharlie
"Supertroll, Ecuador and Saudi Arabia DO present challenges to Trump as a person, President, World Leader etc. His deeds and words have not caused either problem, but he has to deal with the consequences."

Not disputed, but HOW the GREAT ONE is specifically affected, or WHAT he says or does is pertinent. But it is not these aspects that are being discussed here, and it is this point that I am making. This thread is sucking the life out of others, it's almost a rival for the Unthreaded.

I cannot recall Phil ever posting at Unthreaded: is it protected by garlic or something?

(Look, now I'm doing it: bloating this GREAT ONE thread!)

Too many William M Connolley factual fabrications?

We'll never know. Watts gave no reason, my posts just stopped appearing one day. Everything I posted was 100% true and, so I thought, expressed within the rules of the site.

Looking back, he did me a favour.

TTFN

Supertroll, isn't that the point?

Trump has been smeared accused etc from the outset, and given no credit for his achievements as US President. He has done things in a style and manner that is "different" and got results that benefit the US, its ctizens and economy. That is what he said he would do.

His negotiation "style" is blunt. North Korea was rattled, now the ball is in China's court to deal with, and how they hope to maintain trade with the US. He has instigated these changes in Diplomacy.

Presumably to maintain peace in the Middle East, he has reversed the abandonment of Israel, and welcomed the changes in Saudi Arabia under its new Leader. Then sh¡t happened, big time. The Saudis denied everything.

Trump sent "His" man out there. The Saudis have now admitted on TV that Khassoggi is dead. Judge Trump on what happens next?

Turkey is no ally of Trump or KSA. How come they have recordings of a murder within the Embassy? What else have they been recording within other Embassies, and who has the tapes? How many other countries will have sent emergency plumbers to their Embassies in Turkey?

GolfCharlie. My vow to only discuss the GREAT ONE on this thread prevents me from answering most of your latest question or bebutting your errors.

or bebutting your errors.

Oct 20, 2018 at 11:49 AM | Supertroll

Happy to be corrected, but leave my bebutt alone.

If you want to assault a journalist with presidential approval, just make sure he's from the Guardian.

If you want to drug and dismember a journalist, just make sure you're the head of state of a company with $billions in US trade.

Simples!

Oct 20, 2018 at 4:21 PM tomo

Phil Clarke believes in Mann's Hockey Stick. Trump doesn't. Whatever else his faults may be, gullibility is not an issue for Trump.

tomo, interesting link .......

"5.  IMO Trump, Pompeo et al are seeking a way to preserve the relationship of the US with this demoniacal relic of the medieval past.  My WAG on this is that MBS and company will construct a suitable fall guy group from whom confessions will be extracted claiming them to be "rogues" and then the "conspirators" will be executed, probably in public."

Ever since OPEC, under Saudi leadership decided to control the World Economy, all Leaders of the World's dominant economies have had to show some respect towards the Saudis, for varying degrees of mutual benefit

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/opec-enacts-oil-embargo

I had not reached my teens in 1973/4, but the idea that "oil would run out by 2000" was an accepted "fact".

Trump has reinstated sanctions, including oil exports, against Iran, and has changed the economics and cashflow of those that oppose the Saudis.

tomo, the 1973/4 oil crisis led to UK Miner's Strikes. The increase in oil price meant it was economic to explore the North Sea.

Trump is trying to make the USA self sufficient in RELIABLE power, and immune to conflicts that create fuel shortages and sudden price rises in the rest of the world, not just the USA. The Saudis and US still need each other to maintain political stabilijty in the Middle East, including Israel, but the Saudis (and others) are now less able to threaten the US economy.

This is a genuine test for Trump as a World Statesman.

Thomas Beckett was murdered, by those believing they were carrying out the Orders of the King, and became more powerful as a force dead, than he was alive. He became a Martyr, in the manner that Obama was keen to make sure that wealthy Saudi Arabian Osama bin Laden did not.

Trump's opponents do include many of the Saudi's opponents. This is a gift for all of them, that was not manufactured by Trump. Erdogan has been ostracised by UK, EU and USA for good reasons, and Trump's opponents need to be wary of the "my enemies' enemy is my friend" principle.

tomo, there will be attempts to make Khashoggi into a martyr.

Was it something to do with Turkey, meetings, correspondence etc that led to his death, or something communicated within the Saudi Embassy, (that just happened to be in Turkey) on his initial visit?

The Crown Prince has now offered condolences to Khashoggi's family. The opening play in any bartering?

inviting the British Army complete with main battle tanks out for some winter sunshine,,,,,

Oct 22, 2018 at 6:45 AM tomo

Does Mark Urban know whether desert camo paint is dark enough to fry an egg on, in winter sun?

Keep calm. Frack on!

tomo, BBC News now acknowledging that Erdogan is drip feeding information that he has had all along, to maximise its effect, and queries why.

BBC News also voicing concerns about whether Turkey has infomation "obtained" from within other Embassies.

To keep this in the context of this Thread ...... have Agencies within the USA known about this all along, and when did Trump know?!

Or was it the Russians/Assange/Soros/Chinese/Green Blob?