Discussion > WUWT Propaganda
Ah. Dream on, Mr Clarke; the pendulum of popular opinion is already swinging, and the latest generation are proving to be considerably more conservative than recent ones, so we might be in for a period of less government and greater freedom…. Well, the U.S., at least, as they still have their Second Amendment; the rest of the world… maybe not, as they fall to the bloodletting of the caliphate; it would be sad irony if Europe is saved from this by the onset of another little ice age. But, none of us has a true crystal ball, and the future will always be a mystery, no matter how many “models” of it are made.
As for cooling (or warming), perhaps we should be reminded that the 1980s & 90s saw the closure of many met stations, mainly those in higher latitudes and altitudes. Now, I am not a mathematical genius, but I would conjecture that, by removing one extreme of a sample, you will alter the resultant average of that sample; thus, by removing the colder measurements, the average will get warmer. Odd, how, now that that task has finished, there has been little temperature change.
Radical Rodent
Ah, the old Station drop-out canard, as featured in a report by Anthony Watts. Many people conducted an analysis using all stations versus just those that were not dropped.
Similar to Tamino's results, Clear Climate Code found that the dropped weather stations show a greater warming trend than the kept weather stations. The difference seems to be largely due to a divergence in the older, 19th century data. However, they also plotted the trend for the last 30 years of both records. The warming trend from 1962 to 1992 for the dropped weather stations is nearly identical to the warming trend from 1979 to 2009 for the kept weather stations.
Once his thesis was discredited, did Watts update or withdraw his claim of fraud? What do you think?
If you have any honor at all, you’ll set the record straight. You owe it to everyone, and especially to NOAA, to admit that you were wrong. And you certainly owe it to NOAA to apologize. You need to make a highly visible, highly public admission of error, and apology, for using falsehoods to accuse others of fraud.Are you man enough?
- Tamino
Heh.
Phil Clarke
Meh…. whatever. It still does not refute the simple observation that there has been no significant warming, this century. What is going to happen over the remainder of the century? I have no idea, and no-one who is honest will be able to say otherwise; however, it will be a bummer for most people if the temperatures drop. Personally, I hope it resumes its gentle warming, but long experience with what I want to happen and what actually does happen has inured me to disappointment.
Radical Rodent
I would conjecture that, by removing one extreme of a sample, you will alter the resultant average of that sample; thus, by removing the colder measurements, the average will get warmer. Odd, how, now that that task has finished, there has been little temperature change.
Here's the land station data since 1970:Click
The green line is the linear trend in all the data, the blue is the trend since 2000. Near enough identical.
Just off to take my anxiety medication; I've been losing sleep over the prospect of a political debate about a two decades old paleoclimate study. My nerves are shot.
Phil Clarke
It still does not refute the simple observation that there has been no significant warming, this century.
That's simply wrong. Here's the global temperature with the same trends illustrated. : Click
The rate of warming has not changed significantly since 2000, much less stopped.
Phil Clarke
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:27 PM | Phil Clarke
Tamino is another fading star of the Hockey Teamsters. Why has he never spotted any of Mann's mathematical trickery?
golf charlie
"Just off to take my anxiety medication; I've been losing sleep over the prospect of a political debate about a two decades old paleoclimate study. My nerves are shot.
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:47 PM | Phil Clarke"
Can we expect to see you at AO-C's side, supporting her New Green Deal for economic collpse and mass redundancy, in the US Democrat Nomination race?
golf charlie
Well, it is reassuring to be told that the warming will continue by such a (self-professed) expert such as yourself, Mr Clarke – indeed, you assure us that it never stopped warming, which will be some solace to Entropic man and his long-standing denial of “the pause”. However, what it will do for the authors of the 60+ scientific papers explaining the “pause” I will leave it for you to conjecture. While I have been enjoying the mild winters, I do hope not to continue being disappointed with the cool summers. Ho-hum….
Radical Rodent
Politicians that trust Climate Scientists cause mass unemployment. Then they lose credibility and their own careers.
Mann is unable to prove he got anything right, Governments won't bail out Climate Scientists, and wealthy US philanthropists are about to be derided for putting their egos above the rights of Americans.
AO-C is a gift to Republicans, and Trump.
golf charlie
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-leaders-call-on-pelosi-to-hold-green-new-deal-hearings
"Pelosi has expressed hesitation about the deal. In February, she initially dismissed it as “the green dream or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is, but they’re for it right?” She later clarified that she welcomes “all the enthusiasm that is out there.”
NANCY PELOSI WON'T COMMIT ON GREEN DEAL NEW VOTE
But later in the month, she said that she would not commit to holding a vote, saying that ★Congress needs something that is “evidence-based.”★
“I can’t say we’re going to take that and pass it because we have to go through our checks and balances of it with our committee chairs and the rest,” Pelosi, D-Calif., told Roll Call when asked about the Green New Deal, once again sounding a note of caution about the plan."
golf charlie
If Democrats like Pelosi retune to WUWT, they will find this from the GWPF. Pelosi knows there is no evidence to justify AO-C's New Green Deal
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/10/benny-peiser-energy-revolts-the-crisis-of-europes-green-energy-agenda/
The EU’s green energy policies have
* increased energy prices significantly
* reduced competitiveness of European industries
* failed to solve the technological Achilles’ heel of intermittent renewables
* increased energy insecurity and dependence on Russian energy imports
* increased division between Western Europe and Central & Eastern Europe
* given rise to widespread public discontent and the rise of populist parties opposed to the green energy agenda
If Pelosi knows there is insufficient evidence, despite all the Hockey Teamster propaganda, what else does she know to be lies and fraud from the Obama era with John Holdren as the Expert?
golf charlie
gc, Alexa and Markey may have jumped the sharkey. The straw in the wind may be shareholder inquiries wondering what value all the 'greenbacks' have bought.
And lost opportunity costs compound. Oh what a mistake this social mania of climate catastrophe has been.
==============================
kim
https://drtimball.ca/2013/wrong-prediction-wrong-science-unless-its-government-climate-science/
Canard a
clipe
Phil Clarke on 2010/03/10 at 5:59 PM said:
I hope you have plenty of free time! I had a brief stab at something similar a while back, but the pressure of career and family meant it had to lapse.
That, and the descent of WUWT into self-parody – witness todays ‘Yeah we know the headline is balony but we liked it so we posted it anyway’
Shame the Science Blog of the Year got pulled, I’d like to see a head to head between yourselves and Denial Depot ;-)
Watch out for copyright – you know what he’s like.
good luck.
Phil Clarke
Blog has been removedSorry, the blog at ketchupwiththat.blogspot.com has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs.
Did you expect to see your blog here? See: 'I can't find my blog on the web, where is it?'
clipe
Clipe - A 6 year old post from Tim Ball, and what else? Your point is obscure (again).
I don't waste any time on Ball; his indifference to the truth is now a matter of legal opinion and court record
… despite Dr. Ball’s history as an academic and a scientist, the Article is rife with errors and inaccuracies, which suggests a lack of attention to detail on Dr. Ball’s part, if not an indifference to the truth.”
[…]“the Article is poorly written and does not advance credible arguments in favour of Dr. Ball’s theory about the corruption of climate science. Simply put, a reasonably thoughtful and informed person who reads the Article is unlikely to place any stock in Dr. Ball’s views […]
- The Honourable Mr Justice Skolrood. Click
An indifference to the truth is pretty much a required qualification for the role of regular contributor to the Gish Gallop at WUWT, obvs. Cases in point - Two articles now from Larry Hamlin on the lack of acceleration in sea level rise as measured by Tide gauges. Tamino points out that
… to disprove Hamlin’s claim of “no acceleration anywhere,” all you need is one tide gauge station, namely the one he himself chose to highlight, and the only part of that you need is the last 30 years, the time span he himself chose. He says “This debunks acceleration” when in fact, in the specific case he shows himself, “This proves acceleration” is more like it.
Or Eschenbach's assertion that Europe has already seen a rise of 2C, based on the Berkeley Earth data.
Situation Normal. There really is no need for a parody blog of WUWT, it does such a good job of self-parody.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Phil Clarke
Heh, when sea level ceases to rise, or even when its rate of rise slows, we are doomed to catastrophic cooling.
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kim
Mar 20, 2019 at 8:54 PM | Phil Clarke
Still no evidence to support Mann's Hockey Stick and subsequent scientific fraud and corruption. Is it time for Climate Scientists to try some science and give up on propaganda?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/21/massive-coalition-backs-trumps-climate-science-committee/
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/21/lewandowsky-on-the-right-way-to-cry-wolf/
golf charlie
when sea level ceases to rise, or even when its rate of rise slows, we are doomed to catastrophic cooling.
That's how it is on this bitch of an earth.
― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
GC, you've been given multiple opportunities to back up your accusations of scientific fraud by Dr Mann, and you've flunked each one, meanwhile the man himself adds another award to his impressive collection.
So it goes.
Phil Clarke
"GC, you've been given multiple opportunities to back up your accusations of scientific fraud by Dr Mann, and you've flunked each one, meanwhile the man himself adds another award to his impressive collection.
Mar 23, 2019 at 9:32 AM | Phil Clarke"
Why did Mann co author Harvey et al?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/23/a-new-book-with-unexpected-good-news-about-polar-bears/
Why did Mann erase the MWP and LIA?
If you take away the lies, what is left of US Taxpayer Climate Science funding?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/21/massive-coalition-backs-trumps-climate-science-committee/
Phil Clarke, you have flunked every opportunity to demonstrate honesty amongst 97% of Climate Scientists. That is not my problem. Your problem is within your link to Penn State:
"Michael Mann, distinguished professor of atmospheric science, Penn State, has been awarded the 2019 Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement. Founded in 1973, the Tyler Prize -- often referred to as the "Nobel Prize for the Environment" -- remains the premiere international award for environmental science."
"Mann is honored with this award not only for his research in reconstructing the Earth's past climate and placing modern climate change in a long-term context, but also for his communication and outreach efforts."
If Climate Science had got honest about Mann's Hockey Stick, there might have been something left worth saving.
golf charlie
Golf Charlie, unable to back up accusations of fraud, instead takes us here…
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/03/21/massive-coalition-backs-trumps-climate-science-committee/
A massive coalition of environmental organizations, activists, and think-tank leaders signed a letter to President Donald Trump supporting the proposed Presidential Commission on Climate Security (PCCS),
Oooh, I love these things.
The coalition letter, signed by almost 40 leading policy organizations and well over 100 prominent leaders, argues that an independent review of federal global-warming reports is “long overdue.”
These Oregon Petition type things crop up from time to time and are invariably hilarious. Back when Jim Imhofe owned Marc Morano, MM used to waste taxpayers dollars trawling the media for anything vaguely 'sceptical' and compile them into a list headlined for example 'U.S. Senate Report: Over 700 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007
One of my personal favourite Morano selections was this, from the Telegraph…
"Our climate has always changed, I'm sure we are contributing to global warming, and we must do all we can to reduce that, but our climate has always changed. The Romans had vineyards in Yorkshire. We're all on this bandwagon of ‘Ban the 4x4 in Fulham'. Why didn't we have global warming during the Industrial Revolution? In those days you couldn't have seen across the street for all the carbon emissions and the crap coming out of the chimneys,"
From a prominent climate scientist? Not really, unless you include TV Gardener and Housewife's favourite Alan Titchmarsh in that category. No really.
And so let us sample a few of these '100 prominent leaders'.
Peter F. Alexander, L. A., Landscape Architect Planner …. LOL
Timothy Ball, Ph. D., Author of Human Caused Global Warming - serial libel case loser
Hans U. Kurr, Simultaneous Interpreter (ret.), United Nations - really?
Hal Shurtleff, Director, Camp Constitution - only $350 a week folks!
Anthony Watts, Meteorologist and Publisher - well, we had a TV Gardener, why not a washed up TV weatherman? Heh.
More than 1 in 5 of these 'prominent leaders' is now retired. Ignore the Nobel prize winning IPCC folks, a landscape gardener disagrees! Could it be that this lame list is an entertainment compared to the fact that the scientific consensus is supported by tens of thousands of active scientists and 100% of National Science Academies and scientific associations?
More please, we all need a good laugh in these dark days.
Phil Clarke
Could it be that this lame list is an entertainment compared to the fact that the scientific consensus is supported by tens of thousands of active scientists and 100% of National Science Academies and scientific associations?
More please, we all need a good laugh in these dark days.
Mar 23, 2019 at 11:55 PM | Phil Clarke
How many of your Climate Science liars are prepared to give evidence in support of Mann and his Hockey Stick? Who cares anyway if Climate Science loses US Taxpayer Funding and Government support?
People are bored with Climate Science austerity.
Yes, people will laugh as University Climate Science Departments have to close, they should have been honest, just for once, about Mann.
US Democrats are starting to appreciate the horrors of the New Green Deal, and the televised debates haven't started yet.
Are you sure that some of the 97% are not going to get honest to save their careers and stay out of Court proceedings?
golf charlie
Heh, as the fella from Hahvard said with respect to the Penn State whitewash of the Piltdown Mann: "What is going on here?"
Michael Mann will be infamous far into the future. You should give him up, his straightened shaft is damning, but I understand your dependence. You have nothing else to stand on, and it is superficially persuasive.
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kim
Mar 24, 2019 at 5:25 PM | kim
Mann invested a lot of Taxpayer Funding in himself and Climate Science when he lost the MWP and LIA. The IPCC must have been Intergovernmentally Corrupt to agree with his carelessness.
The MWP and LIA have now been found again, so it is only fair that Taxpayers should expect a return of their investment.
The US FBI and DOJ have been busy hunting a Golden Maned Wild Goose for the last 3 years. Perhaps they now have the time and motivation to get back to some evidenced based investigations, ignoring dodgy dossiers and Hockey Sticks.
golf charlie
Not good news for the EU or BBC. Terrible news for Climate Science.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47688187
"President Trump's campaign "did not conspire" with Russia during the 2016 election campaign, Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report says."
golf charlie
kim, I think Phil Clarke is worried about the prospect of US Democrats arguing in public about the truth of Mann's Hockey Stick.
This has not happened before. It would be unprecedented.
"Philanthropic" US Billionaire$ are going to be asked how many US jobs and lives they hope to destroy with every $1m they donate to Green Blob Democrat causes. Genuine charities are going to distance themselves from the Green Blob, so that genuine causes get genuine help.
It all seems fair and reasonable.