The Guardian is having a debate about electric cars next week.
Damian Carrington is asking for questions to the panel...

SENSIBLE questions please, that reflect areasonable debate..

Mine are: (bbcbias)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2011/mar/18/electric-cars?commentpage=last&msg=a#end-of-comments
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As the purpose is for reducing CO2 emissions.

1: Where is the extra electricity going to come from to charge these cars?, predominantly charged overnight.

2: what are the environmental impacts of all that Lithium. ie the mining extraction and processing it, and disposing of it, when the car reaches it's end of life. A nissan Leaf has 4kg of lithium for example.

3: what is the dust to dust CO2 emissions in the manufacturing , running (ie including if charged by renewable, or non renewable source) and disposal at the end of the cars life.

4: In light of the above will the UK actually achieve ANY overall CO2 remission reduction. As I do not see any possibility of enough renewable energy being put in place (technologocal and logistically possible in the time frame) by 2020

5: Would the actual goals be achived by developing existing technologies.
Recent developemenst in diesel, stopstart, etc, give many conventioanl cars BETTER overall emissions of more expensive electric cras, without the disposal and environmental issues of the battery technologies above...

6: Will the developement of electric cars, rare earth metals (toxic productions methods as well) and lithium (see above), lead to an environmental disaster for poor countries, and fail to achieve any emission reductions...

Currenly only France with a high proportion of it's electric power provided by nuclear power stations, has a chance of meeting emission targets ((relative to goal and gas - UK's main power source) yet this does not take into account the environmental cost of lithium mining, rare earth mining..

Wind turbines CANNOT provide enough power for this in the timescale.
See - Generation by Fuel Type Graph - for wind
http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm

Dirty Lithium
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1166387/In-search-Lithium-The-battle-3rd-element.html

Are they clean relative to other vehicles, if you consider manufacturing and end of life considerations?

Manufacturing process and material of electric cars vs conventional low emmsiosion diesals (ie VW group blue motion technology, as just one manufcaturers example)

Lithium mining and processing is a toxic process.

Also the environmentla cost of mining massively more quantities of Lithium

The econimcic may not stack up, (allready subsidised and expensive electric cars) as the cost of lithium is set to rise with this demand.

'Since a vehicle battery requires 100 times as much lithium carbonate as its laptop equivalent, the green-car revolution could make lithium one of the planet's most strategic commodities,' says Mary Ann Wright of Johnson Controls-Saft, a lithium-ion battery producer.

But there is simply nowhere near enough currently mined to fuel the world's 900 million cars. According to William Tahil, research director with technology consultancy Meridian International Research, 'to make just 60 million plug-in hybrid vehicles a year containing a small lithium-ion battery would require 420,000 tons of lithium carbonate - or six times the current global production annually.

'But in reality, you want a decent-sized battery, so it's more likely

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1166387/In-search-Lithium-The-battle-3rd-element.html#ixzz1Gx0I6CFj

Not very Green:

"In the parched hills of Chile's northern region the damage caused by lithium mining is immediately clear. As you approach one of the country's largest lithium mines the white landscape gives way to what appears to be an endless ploughed field. Huge mountains of discarded bright white salt rise out of the plain. The cracked brown earth of the site crumbles in your hands. There is no sign of animal life anywhere. The scarce water has all been poisoned by chemicals leaked from the mine.

Huge channels and tracts have been cut into the desert, each running with heavily polluted water. The blue glow of chlorine makes the water look almost magical, but these glistening pools are highly toxic. The chlorine used to water down the potentially carcinogenic lithium and magnesium compounds that are commonly found in the water table around lithium deposits.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1166387/In-search-Lithium-The-battle-3rd-element.html#ixzz1Gx0iA8xV

Good intentions lead to environmental destruction for no result ?

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is it just self promotion for Renualt.
Might other solutions be better, ie hyprids with range extenders,ie a very small petrol or diesel unit not connected to the transmission, that will take it beyond 100miles battery range (ie no range anxiety)

Ie Chevorlet Volt..
Lotus make this range extending technolgy for other manufacturers

Are pure EV's a white elephant?
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keep it at an engineering level.

Couldn't resist this....MESSENGER begins historic orbit around Mercury.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/18/messenger-begins-historic-orbit-around-mercury

Back later....

Dear Bish,

Our local council is promoting Climate Week, 21st-27th March (somewhat similar to Earth Day, but longer). The Council's website says, "we are asking members of the public to get involved in the Climate South West - Whatever the Weather photo competition to help highlight some of the extreme weather being experienced in the South West as a result of a changing climate. The competition asks for pictures of extreme weather relating to the themes: hot, cold, wet and dry and the top prize is an annual family pass for one year’s free admission to National Trust Places. The deadline for entries is March 13 2011. "

That alone makes my blood boil.

There is then a link to the Climate Week Website. There are various suggestions of things to do if you are a business, regional body, council etc, if you are an educational establishment, etc.etc. You could show a film and there is a list of suggested films, including An Inconvenient Truth. Another was Avatar, at which point I started to laugh. We took our son to see it and screamed with laughter when they mentioned "unobtanium". We fell asleep after that, it was so awful.

However, the point is that they are recommending showing these films, amongst other things, and promoting extreme weather and all the usual scaremongering tactics. I am dropping a line to the Leader of our Council as Council had passed a resolution some time back to the effect that if an Inconvenient Truth was shown in schools the counter argument had also to be shown (The Great Global Warming Scandal, as I recall, but I could be wrong). This strikes me as a back door way of promoting climate change to circumvent the requirement not to show bias in education.

I have exited the Climate Week website but others may have stronger stomachs to look and comment.

I think the final irony is that the main partner in this is Tesco. I shall make no further comment for fear of prosecution.

A comment over at WUWT, Tips and Notes:

Michael R says:
March 17, 2011 at 9:44 pm

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I wanted to mention an interesting conversation I just had with my local Liberal MP Peter Chandler (http://www.countryliberals.org.au/content.php?id=28).

Some time ago I had dropped my copy of the book “The Hockey Stick Illusion” as I was aware from previous conversations that he and I saw pretty much eye to eye on matters relating to climate change, conservationism and power generation and I believed the book would be a good source of infor providing links and a clear discussion which not all MP’s in this country are willing to do.

My first call in after some time to see if he had read it revealed he had not yet had time to do so, however that was not the case today.

I called in to the office and we had a discussion on the book and he let me know that he has used it extensively in climate change discussions – and in fact in a number of cases related to but not always directly about CO2 emissions. In addition, he has quoted passages and given sources in local parliament and says that “the best thing about the book is that it is very clear on giving source information so when the people who are ‘enusiastic’ on climate change ask him questions such as ‘where is his source?’ he can easily give references’. He also said that with some of these people he drives them up the wall somewhat because every time he does bring up these points some people do not like them because it brings solid facts to the table.

I was somewhat floored by the use to which he has put the book and wanted to just let you know that here is a good example of where the book has had direct impact on discussions of policy for my local electorate (Darwin, Australia).

He also warned me that the book was currently on his nightstand and that when I got it back it would be a “work in progress” (referencing it will likely not come back in pristine condition) which I have no problem with as I have a feeling it has been put to very good use and more use than I probably could have done.

A Guardian writer (McCurry) is suggesting that '10s of 1000s' of Japanese may already have had their health permanently 'forever' changed by radiation exposure, making them the modern day equivalent of the 1945 generation who survived the WW2 atomic bombs. Methinks this is more Guardian extremism

Repeal the Climate Change Act
http://www.gopetition.com/petition/43914.html

Signatures required to petition the PM.

Interesting looking programme on R4 tonight. From the Radio Times web site:

"When the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit got into hot water over leaked emails, the case review stated: "[In] a matter of such global importance, the highest standards of honesty, rigour and openness are needed". In this two-part documentary, Adam Rutherford reviews some high-profile cases where scientists didn't take those responsibilities quite seriously enough. As he trawls through a fascinating rogues' gallery, from Piltdown Man to a South Korean geneticist's claim that he had cloned stem cells, Rutherford wonders whether scientific misconduct is more prevalent than we think."

Thursday 9pm, BBC Radio4

Nothing like a knee jerk reaction...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12769810

House of Commons Science & Technology Committee - PEER REVIEW

For those interested the written submissions are now being posted on the Committees Web Page

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/856/contents.htm

87 submissions so far including one from UEA

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/856/m42.htm

oops missed out the quote...

Tsunamis are by definition caused by events like earthquakes…

The Amrita University, omit ‘earthquakes’ from their quote, or has the newspaper made the connection and added it?

“Human actions are interfering with the delicate balance of nature,” he added. “Floods, heat waves, water scarcity, tsunamis will become frequent in the future.” Rajendra Pachauri, 11th March 2011
http://web.amrita.edu/news/news-content.php?id=7&ct=10