Petition to the President
Feb 27, 2017 Guest Post by David Holland
Dick Lindzen has sent to President Trump a letter and petition signed by some 300 scientists and experts (H/T Anthony Watts). The petition is for the US to withdraw from the UNFCCC. I had some difficulty accessing it but eventually located a pdf of the letter and the petition itself here.
I'm sure Dick speaks for many BH readers as well some of our MPs. Even at the high water mark in 2008 only a little over half of British voters thought humans were responsible for most global warming and less than half thought it a pressing problem. Recent opinion polls now show that barely 10% of the public regard climate change as a serious concern. Few can now dispute the global agricultural benefits of increased carbon dioxide concentration, but in the UK and elsewhere we are seeing the chronic health damage resulting from the dash to diesel subsidised by foolish governments.
Hopefully when Parliament debates the Grand Repeal Bill some of our smarter MPs will push to dump any directives requiring reductions in carbon dioxide emissions or support for the UNFCCC.
Reader Comments (404)
Phil Clarke, do you have no honesty and self respect?
As I have observed before, 'scepticism' is not what it used to be.
Mar 10, 2017 at 5:07 PM | Phil Clarke
As Greenpeace have confirmed that they lie, who needs to be skeptical about whether they are dishonest. It is now a fact, stated by Greenpeace, in a US Court of Law.
Guilt by association is one of Phil Clarke's preferred method of attack, so as soon as UK Courts recognise that anything stated by anyone connected to a Green Blob argument is probably lying, the better.
It should make the countryside more peaceful, if Green vandals stay out of it.
So, Nils-Axel Morner, failed diviner but successful desecrator of Ancient Monuments, who we know has no scruples when it comes to lying about his credentials, theorised that sea levels around the Maldives actually fell since the 1950s, even as all the tide guages say different.
But, but but there is this tree, this one tree, which Nutty Nils assures us could in no way have survived the massive 4 inch rise in sea levels since 1950. It would have been uprooted and tossed aside. Case closed.
Ok, so the tree was apparently uprooted and tossed aside. But look, this was not the sea level rising, this was evil Australian Evironentalists destroying evidence! Nils was told this on good authority. So good, it requires no corroboration.
(Want a tree replanting? You know where to come, if the pictures don't come out just right, no problem, i have Photoshop)
Once again, one is constrained to ask, at what point does the actual scepticism kick in?It would seem impossibe to endorse Morner ( and therefore Lindzen) while honestly self-describing as 'sceptical'
I suspect that Phil Clarke is a descendant of Monty Python's Black Knight.
So Fuddled Phil, 4 inches in 67 years is MASSIVE . . . ?
@Mar 11, 2017 at 8:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke
Once again, one is constrained to ask at what point does the actual scepticism kick in? -What a pompous prat you are Phil even to make such a comment. The remaining drivel that preceded that just about sums you up. Why don't you go over to check out the casinos and holiday accommodation on these islands - might even fine the odd mangrove tree. Prize Prat.Phil.
From Wikki:
Nils-Axel Morner.... Former head of the paleogeophysics and geodynamics department at Stockholm University. He retired in 2005. ... president of the International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA), Commission on Neotectonics (1981–1989). He headed the INTAS (International Association for the promotion of cooperation with scientists from the New Independent States of the former Soviet Union) Project on Geomagnetism and Climate (1997–2003). ....He was formerly the Chairman of INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution,
And Phil's expertize in this area is...?
@supertroll 'And Phil's expertize in this area is...?'
He goes snorkling in the canaries every year, and he marked the sea level on the side of the boat in the first year.
Every year the line gets further and further under water..
Almost at the same rate his head gets bigger and bigger
For 'Underwater Phi'
l It looks as though the 'swamp is being drained' right throughout the G20 economies.(see Bloomberg below) So Phil better get that snorkelling trip in quick smart before all the funding is gone. Children may never see Christmas pressies again. Looks like the tide is turning - even for you..
March 11th 2017
(Bloomberg) -- Finance ministers for the U.S., China, Germany and other members of the Group of 20 economies may scale back a robust pledge for their governments to combat climate change, ceding efforts to the private sector.
Citing “scarce public resources,” the ministers said they would encourage multilateral development banks to raise private funds to accomplish goals set under the 2015 Paris climate accord, according to a preliminary statement drafted for a meeting that will be held in Germany next week.
The statement, obtained by Bloomberg News, is a significant departure from a communique issued in July, when finance ministers urged governments to quickly implement the Paris Agreement, including a call for wealthy nations to make good on commitments to mobilize $100 billion annually to cut greenhouse gases around the globe.
“It basically says governments are irrelevant. It’s complete faith in the magic of the marketplace,” John Kirton, director of the University of Toronto’s G-20 Research Group, said in an interview. “That is very different from the existing commitments they have repeatedly made.”
Mar 11, 2017 at 9:00 PM | Kleinefeldmaus
It does seem as though the Political Climate has changed, and this is not just a change in Political Weather.
If Politicians had listened to Nils Axel Morner and not those "Climate Scientists" with all their lies and Lysenkoisms, the Earth would be a better place.
I had no idea that Phil Clarke was incapable of parsing a simple English sentence.
Who was it first said, "Silence is the wisdom of fools"?
Mar 11, 2017 at 8:29 AM | Phil Clarke
It does seem that Morner and Lindzen are not liars, whereas Phil Clarke is.
Supertroll,
As you mention Morners's membership of INQUA as evidence of his scientific gravitas, what do you make of their position statement?
And the views of the current president of that learned body about their erstwhile president:
If he lies about his credentials, I should believe his photoshopped science? To me, Morner is a sad example of a previously eminent scientist who lost it, embracing pseudoscience and fakery. There's more evidence to support this than there is for falling sea levels around the Maldives. My animadversions seem to have touched something of a raw nerve. So it goes, apologising for this nutter is not a good look.
What the heck was Lindzen thinking?
Check this
https:// https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFTEZTuLRoM html
Mar 11, 2017 at 11:49 PM | Phil Clarke
You just lie. How does anyone know whether you are lying now? Even if you are not lying, because you believe what you copy and paste, your gullibility merely confirms your lack of credibility.
Did Mann ever actually see the tree(s) he based his Hockey Stick theory on? If you say Morner fails because you do not believe in his tree, what proof do you have, that any of Mann's tree(s) even existed?
As you are convinced by Mann, you just convince others, that he also lies.
Mar 11, 2017 at 11:49 PM | Phil Clarke
Interesting that your extract comes from discredited Skeptical Skience and has Dana Nuccitelli's name on it.
The current Consensus of 100% of serving Presidents of the USA, is that they are unreliable sources.
For Phil
In 1837, the Maldives were disappearing in to the sea.
The following interesting account of the Maldives islands is copied from a publication, which [has recently] emanated from the Bombay Geographical Society (a branch of the Parent Society in London). Lieutenant Young and Mr. Christopher of the Indian navy write it.
The natives observe the atolls to be wasting away; in some the coconut trees are standing in the water; in another the black soil of the island is discernible at low water thirty feet from the beach; the south-east side of an island in Phaidee Pholo Atoll is entirely gone, but is marked by a Banyan tree in the water. They say that some islands have disappeared entirely and instance near the island Wardoo a rocky shoal, which (they say) was once an island in Atoll-Milla.
But in 2016, there has been no sea level rise for 17 years. Phil please get your head around that!
So you see Phil – back when Queen Victoria ascended the throne(i.e. before the industrial revolution and increased co2 there was quite a bit of coastal erosion of these islands – it happens all over the place. But the islands are still there.
It seems that you Phil, would rather believe Mark Lynas writing in ‘The Guardian’. Ho ho ho You are such a comedian! Who in their right mind can ever take Lynas seriously?
Please keep to the factual arguments and keep off the personal insults. TM
Phil
There is no dispute that there has been some warming since the end of the LIA as you would expect from records of historic changes. There's just not a shred of evidence that all of this fairly insignificant warming was caused by MMCO2, not a shred of evidence that it is causing climate change and not a shred of evidence that it is anything but wholly beneficial. The claims about records of ever hotter years are based only on fudged data and an accuracy of measurement that can't be achieved.
Phil
There is no dispute that there has been some warming since the end of the LIA as you would expect from records of historic changes. There's just not a shred of evidence that all of this fairly insignificant warming was caused by MMCO2, not a shred of evidence that it is causing climate change and not a shred of evidence that it is anything but wholly beneficial. The claims about records of ever hotter years are based only on fudged data and an accuracy of measurement that can't be achieved.
I have written this before but it is still pertinent. You can prove what you like about sealevel changes on Maldives islands because, over time, they move. On one side of an island there are small cliffs, collapsing trees (as they are being undercut) and the thickest and darkest soils. These parts of the islands are the oldest and are undergoing erosion by the sea. On the opposite side of the islands the shoreline is very different. There are no cliffs or undermined trees, instead there is gently shelving sand, immature trees and very poor light-coloured soils. These are the youngest parts of the islands where the shoreline is advancing by the deposition of new sand introduced from the surrounding reefs by the waves. So one side of the island is growing (accreting) and the other side is eroding. Over time, the islands move.
Want to demonstrate that sea level is rising and the islands are threatened, use photographs of the eroding parts of the islands (toppling palm trees are always good for this). Want to demonstrate the islands are not threatened, the accreting sides are your targets.
This scenario does not apply to the outermost islands which are anchored by lithified remnants of their older Pleistocene precursor islands - but these are not the usual tourist islands that most visitors see.
Mar 12, 2017 at 9:15 AM | Supertroll
Don't start confusing Global Warming Alarmists with facts. Their models don't compute anything inconvenient.
Faking news about Climate Science is a Global Phenomenon
http://joannenova.com.au/2017/03/fake-news-whipping-up-a-media-frenzy-over-bizarre-records-before-they-occur/
With all the fake news and fake science, Trump must have had a few genuine petitions from Climate Scientists. I think he will assume the petitions have no basis in fact or science either
O/T A guys speaking Malay on BBC2 now, which is strange cos he's canoeing in PNG
I can understand what he is saying , but not the tribal people he talking to.
He just showing women who had fingers axed off as an act of mourning for the dead.
And now he's sleeping next to the mummy of a local hero who was smoked over a fire for 6 months
.
Faking news about Climate Science is a Global Phenomenon
Disgraceful. Reminds me of David Rose [and the GWPF] announcing that in the HADCRUT dataset, January 2017 was no warmer than January 1998.
One teeny issue: they did this before the HADCRUT January number was released. And when it was published, it was considerably warmer than 1998.
Direct hit on foot, credibility-wise.
https://moyhu.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/january-hadcrut-and-david-rose.html
Why is a journalist having to do the job scientists refuse to do (as in check what scientists are saying)? If you guys hadn't sold your souls in the name of "the cause" Phil, someone like David Rose would only be a footnote in history and nothing more.
Mailman
Mailman. Don't you mean that David Rose would then have been a little toenote of history?
PC
Presumably all the other data points plotted aren't disputed? In which case, it looks as if November 1997 and November 2016 are rather similar . . .
Cherry picking again. Looks very much like a pause to me LOL.
Phil Clarke, which bits of Climate Science are worth saving? No Hockey Teamster has ever found anything wrong in any of their own work, let alone that of their colleagues when they Peer Review it.
Sceptics are therefore more honest than the 97%, and Trump has adopted a sensible approach, as Climate Science has provided no new evidence to support their failed theories.
Was watching the Dutch election coverage on the fascist red ice radio ,a particularly nasty specimen was actually sitting on a old VoC flag.
Trump,Wilders & the rest are not organic outgrowths of a peasants revolt - they are the usury class response to capitalisms internal contradictions.
So far they appear wildly ineffective.
PS - not sure if the Amsterdam / Turkey tension entirely a fabrication or real evidence of a breakdown in the narcotics trade between the center and the Asian gateway.
You never know ,Amsterdam may be giving up on the EU "dream" given the total bankruptcy of its customers, it will certainly not be for altruistic reasons.
Phil Clarke says:
Position statements are politics, not science.
As for your comment:
This is just smear and innuendo. Quite frankly, it is hard to take you seriously when you are clearly just spouting propaganda. You have presented no evidence to support your claim of a photoshopped image, and the video footage I linked to clearly contradicts your claim. Your statement is even possibly libellous, you might do well to recall what happened when Fred Singer was libelled:
http://media.hoover.org/documents/0817939326_283.pdf
And as Koppel stated when Gore tried to interfere politically and smear Singer:
Keep up the good work Phil. When ordinary people read your comments, you will find that you have made a positive contribution to the "RealClimate Effect". This is where curious readers see the tone and smearing from you and then realise that the sceptics are actually the reasonable people. I have seen many sceptics who arrived via that route, rarely the reverse.
Mar 16, 2017 at 12:48 PM | thinkingscientist
It is interesting that anyone can be an expert in Climate Science, without any qualifications at all, provided they do not question Mann's Hockey Stick, the lack of science, dodgy maths, data confidentiality etc.
Mann's Hockey Stick should be used as a bent Yardstick, by which a Climate Science expert's credibility can be judged.
A bent yard stick,
a crooked mile,
distortions in a looking glass,
cli-sci guile.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/16/white-house-budget-director-climate-spending-a-waste-of-your-money/
"White House Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney answering questions at a press conference, explained that the reason the President wants to slash climate funding is he considers such funding to be a waste of money."
I wonder which Climate Science Petition clinched it, so conclusively? Perhaps it was all the real suntans sported by Climate Scientists after a weeks heavy conferencing on tropical island beaches, that made Trump feel jealous.
Piers Morgan
Professor Stephan Hawking say unwelcome in Trumps America because of his views on Climate Change
Good should save the CO2 on a transatlantic flight.
Seems Climate Change activist Prof Hawking is good at joyriding jets around the world as a guest of celebrities racking up the air miles and the CO2. He even got taken out of his wheelchair to go on a NASA Astronaut Training flight. CO2 in a good cause.
This ain't fake news. Here's the real oil on THAT meeting. - Some folk just don't make it with "The Donald" - and Angela simply didn't cut it.
https:// https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFTEZTuLRoM html
Meanwhile Angela faces more embarrassment - See today's Daily Express - extract below.
>b>Embarrassment for Merkel as Germany admits CO2 rise on same day as Berlin climate summit
ANGELA Merkel's Government made an embarrassing admission that their country has seen a rise in CO2 emissions on the same day Berlin hosted a climate summit.The Environmental Agency published figures today showing that emissions of CO2 in 2016 in the country were still rising.
It is the seventh year in a row that CO2 emissions have not been reduced in the European country.
The news will be of acute embarrassment to Mrs Merkel’s administration as it was announced on the same day more than 1,200 experts from 93 countries travelled to Berlin for talks at a climate summit, according to Die Welt.
Despite the enormous green electricity subsidies, the country of the ‘Energiewende’ has not been able to reduce its own CO2 emissions even slightly for seven years in a row.
However, the summit ”Berlin Energy Transition can, of course, also be seen as a success if countries learn not to follow Germany’s example.
Germany also looks likely to miss its self-imposed target of cutting the carbon dioxide emissions by 40 per cent by 2020.
Environmentally friendly cars you may be FORCED to replace your diesel with
A list of low emissions environmentally friendly cars to replace your diesel with.
Renewable energies must cover two thirds of global energy needs by 2050 if the goal of the World Climate Conference is to keep global warming "well below two degrees Celsius" this century.
According to Irena (International Agency for Renewable Energies) chief executive Adnan Amin, the share of renewable energies in the global energy mix will have to rise by 1.2 per cent a year, which is a sevenfold increase of the rate of growth so far.As a first substantial step, it has been recommended to discontinue subsidies for fossil fuels, in particular petrol, fuel oil and gas, which are common in many countries.
The energy consumption of the entire global economy should be reduced by 2.5 per cent per year, which is three times the average of the past 15 years.
The global investment in the energy sector of today will have to increase from an annual budget of $1.8 trillion on average to $3.5 trillion per year, according to a report jointly published by the German economics and environment agencies.
Expenditure would also increase global economic growth by a factor of one percent in the middle of the century and, according to the study's authors, create six million new jobs worldwide in the energy sector alone. This would more than offset job losses in the coal and oil industry.
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Jamspid: "Climate Change activist Prof Hawking"
Professor Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy, along with John Schellnhuber and Martin Rees (and a cast of 1000's). (Fitting that Schellnhuber is a full member of the Club of Rome).
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/academicians/ordinary.html
The Academy produced this document in 2015, with familiar authors:
"Climate Change and the Common Good":
"A Statement Of The Problem And The Demand For Transformative Solutions"
http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/dam/accademia/pdf/statement_climate_change_common_good%20(final).pdf
Hi,
Could be of interest. Just checked out Gridwatch.templar.co.uk and it is showing that the national grid is receiving 7.63 GW of solar power. 22.15%. Unable to find latest figures for installed capacity in Uk but assuming 25% efficiency, probably being generous that would amount to an installed capacity of approx. 30 GW. Seems a bit on the high side to me. it says figures supplied by Sheffield university. I'd hate to think Gridwatch was a' fake news' site. Can anyone enlighten me as to wether I am missing something.
Will Happer's report from the Heartland Conference that we may have a new King Canute sits oddly with hiis recent visit to the Trump Tower , as the building's actual height suggests sea levels have fallen 10 stories since its construction.
It turns out the real-estate-mogul-turned-presidential-candidate frequently misstates the floor counts of his buildings to exaggerate their height without changing the actual numbers.
Trump Tower's atrium takes up the first 300 feet of the building's height, according to an interview Trump did with The New York Times in 2003, allowing him to estimate — by taking into account the average height of a ceiling on a floor in New York City — that it took up about 30 stories. He was thus able to name the first real floor the 30th — he resides in the 56th story penthouse. but the builing skips floors 6 to 13 entirely
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2017/03/dynastic-science-advisor-speaks-truth.html
I really didn't press "send" all those times!
It turns out the real-estate-mogul-turned-presidential-candidate frequently misstates the floor counts of his buildings to exaggerate their height without changing the actual numbers.
Mar 25, 2017 at 4:19 PM | Russell
Whereas Climate Scientists just misstate science, facts, data etc to exaggerate their importance, and enlarge their salaries.
What drives Charlie bats is that after five changes of ground stations, radiosondes, satellitess, microwave radiometers, and oceanographic thermobarygraphs, the facts remain the same.
As a skilled elevator user, he might apply for a job measuring the lapse rate betweeen floors 13 & 30 of the Trump Tower