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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

Meanwhile hiding the the Irish section of the Times is an article saying

Life expectancy highest in Galway and Dublin.

People who live in Galway and Dublin have the highest life expectancy in Ireland, new figures suggest.

Both are congested cities and somehow despite that pollution people there live longer.

Jun 29, 2019 at 12:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterMuppets are us

ITV local news "illegal* high pollution levels in Sheffield"
A similar report and similar claim to last week also at Sheffield station
"Here we are at the tenth most polluted spot in Britain : Sheffield Station"

... AFAIK that's not true
#1 We know in London that tube stations are not counted in pollution stats
cos pollution monitor go off the scale due to iron-oxide dust
It is not surprising that station in Sheffield gets high readings too
.. maybe cos of iron-oxide dust

#2 illegal ? Most reporters think the WHO limits are legal,..they aren't , they are just arbitrary
In the item the reporter said the NoX reading was illegal
but the monitor guy seemed worried at that claim he said
"Today it touched X. If it got this high reading at every hour over a month ..then that would be illegal"

The reporter continued
"This pollution contributes to 500 deaths/year in Sheffield"
..that is a weasel word "contributes" ..loads of things could "contributes"
..chocolate might contribute to your death

Ah the piece was a warmup for Sheffield Pollution Consultation
The BBC just put a piece up
https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/1145788422289858561
Local radio have a video report

WEB
https://planetradio.co.uk/hallam/local/news/sheffield-s-clean-air-conversation-begins/
"Sheffield City Council is seeking * £50million* of government support to help drivers upgrade their vehicles"
"Sheffield, along with Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham, has illegal levels of air pollution.
In Sheffield alone this contributes to 500 deaths a year"
weasel words .to make you think there are 500 actual pollution deaths ..there aren't
...* I bet Sheffield Councils motivation is £50m that comes from magic unicorns.

Jul 1, 2019 at 11:12 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

journos confused about legal limits
: NOx has a legal limit of 40microgrammes AVERAGE ANNUAL
..so they see its 60 right now and think its illegal
... but that is NOT illegal

EU law says spikes should not exceed 200 more than 18 times/year
..this can happen.

Jul 3, 2019 at 3:40 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Tuesday : Call to Phase out diesel trains

...they chose King's Cross and Waverly cos NOx 200 spikes often happen there.

Waverly averaged 85 . peaking at 103 on one platform

KingsX 78 similar as street of 71

.... tge DRP team didn't have another story to fill the page

Jul 3, 2019 at 3:46 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

ah pg34 in International
PRis bans older diesels 8-8 M-F
2006 cars, 2004 motorbikes, 2009 HGV

Jul 3, 2019 at 4:16 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

ah pg34 in International section
Paris bans older diesels 8-8 M-F
2006 cars, 2004 motorbikes, 2009 HGV

Jul 6, 2019 at 3:15 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Look at the title of this thread
I ask if the thing is a "subsidy mafia front"

Friday's Times main leader is a furious one
"Green - Setback"
it vents against cuts in subsdies
- to hybrid cars
- home solar
- onshore wind
- green deal
Then anger at leaders saying Corbyn previously wanted to reopen coal mines a
and Boris takes his advice from Corbyn's brother Piers "the eccentric forecaster"

maybe Bob Ward wrote the piece.

Jul 6, 2019 at 3:19 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Thursday gives a definition of legal limit
"If 35 days in a year certain particulates are above 50 microgrammes/cubic metre"
..hmm bet the roads are lower than that at night

It claims cycle routes have reduced traffieg one road Upper Thames st 47K now 28.5K
...I bet the narrower road is jammed so people take a new route
and the old sensor is now distanced from cars by a cycle lane

Jul 6, 2019 at 3:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Paul mentions a debunk from France
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/air-pollution-38000-deaths-per-year-worldwide-including-48000-in-france/

In my comment I remind him
There has been a debunk from Germany

Is it reality or PR ?
Bottomline if you were dealing with reality
then raw deaths is a BS measure,
.. cos are you talking about people who are dying at 82 an 2 days , instead of 82 and 32 days ?
A standard metric is QUALDs Quality Adjusted Life Days lost
.. cos then you can calculate if it worth spending public money on

The standard rule is “show me the bodies”
ie if a claim is made that substance X kills people, the claimer should be able to produce death certificates which show substance X as cause of death.

And German doctors previously said
"In their practices and clinics, pulmonary physicians see [deaths caused by cigarette smoke] on a daily basis; however, deaths caused by particulate matter and NOx, even after careful investigation, never,"
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/01/25/nitrogen-oxide-is-it-really-that-dangerous-lung-doctors-ask/

See also
http://euanmearns.com/mortality-from-diesel-car-pollution-in-the-uk/
and
https://junkscience.com/?s=pm+2.5

Jul 7, 2019 at 11:23 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Pg5 Yorkshire Post
"Children's lives could be cut short by city air pollution" (Birmingham)
em the usual dodgy journalism made from cutNpasting a report with made up numbers in

AfAIK all our lives are cut by air pollution by some days, but air gets ever cleaner

"Calculated the annual cist to Birmingham to be £190m to £470m "

Quotes Polly Billington of UK100
"Invisible Killer"
...PR word

Jul 8, 2019 at 4:35 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

So the new Madrid gov says they're stopping the diesel bans
a court says they can't
..\\ Judge reinstates @MADRIDs low emissions zone.
But "Mad Mayor"
@AlmeidaP says, , that he wants to appeal Court decision //

Jul 10, 2019 at 6:22 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Times Biz section
..oh skyscrapers have a big CO2 footprint per m3
so how will they go zero carbon ?
2 page stread
says its a Times analysis.

Jul 10, 2019 at 6:28 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Fri pg 20 lower speed limits will lower tyre /brake wear

... looks like wishful thinking
used to fill space.
London traffic speed is already way lower than UK
yet pollution is much higher

Next story : GM plants will solve Global Warming

Jul 13, 2019 at 3:12 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

by 2026 all UK only vessels will have to be zero-emission capable
WTF does that mean if the engine has capability to run on wood pellets or biogas that's OK ?

Jul 13, 2019 at 3:28 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

That's the Royal Navy screwed then.

The lack of challenges to these pronouncements is exasperating - especially since when they don't have to defend their BS - the goons simply ratchet up the BS - the provenance of the zero emissions for ships / boats deserves to be exposed - I'd wager it tracks straight back to the smug, untouchable embedded activists in BEIS.

Jul 13, 2019 at 4:26 PM | Registered Commentertomo

\\ Plans to impose a clean air toll on Tyneside's roads could be watered down after thousands of people objected.

Newcastle, North Tyneside and Gateshead councils were considering hitting high-polluting vehicles with a £12.50 daily fee to drive into town.

They were also considering charging drivers up to £3.40 to cross bridges over the River Tyne.

The councils are now considering lower fees after a public backlash.

Half of the 19,000 people who gave feedback were opposed to both options.//
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-49010057

Jul 17, 2019 at 3:25 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Loony Tweeter @gazza_d
\\ I can never understand why the publics views are taken into consideration on things like this.
Of course they won’t like it, it will cost them money and force some to make alternative arrangements.
THAT’S THE ENTIRE BLOODY POINT. //

Sensible tweeter
\\ Of course they are.
The proposals were deliberately extreme and were never intended to be implemented.
Just a smokescreen to make a more limited proposal look less scary and claim the “consultation” was genuine.
We’re not stupid 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ //

Jul 17, 2019 at 3:36 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Times Front Page : Gove joins our Campaign
admitted that Britain had been a laggard in tackling air pollution
... tosh

UK is a world leader .. pollution has fallen massively.

Jul 17, 2019 at 3:54 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Does the Times team get Friday's off
They got 2 articles in on Thursday
pg16 #CleanAirForAll: Almost two million people will still be exposed to dangerous levels of air pollution by 2030

pg26 Ian Birrel mixes up Climate Emergency and Clean Air

Jul 27, 2019 at 3:45 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

https://www.notion.so/shredded/Has-Gummer-Goofed-5511d6dcf68b43ee9fc5ad41bd744116

The planned move to hydrogen for shipping, HGVs industry and backup generation in addition to the plans to pump it through the gas mains and heat housing using hybrid heat pumps are highlighted in the above article (which is not a blog.) In addition the number of cars is reduced. Naturally, the CCC think 15,000 giant wind turbines is a good idea and plan to use hyrogen and largely redundant gas generators to fill the 100 GW gap when the wind doesn't blow anywhere in January. The strange thing is that May, Boris, Corbyn and the Dums accept all this crap.

Aug 6, 2019 at 4:35 PM | Unregistered Commentersteve

The link doesn't work on this site Stew. Any ideas how to make it work?

Aug 6, 2019 at 4:37 PM | Unregistered Commentersteve

https://www.notion.so/shredded/Has-Gummer-Goofed-5511d6dcf68b43ee9fc5ad41bd744116

(a href="https://www.notion.so/shredded/Has-Gummer-Goofed-5511d6dcf68b43ee9fc5ad41bd744116") link (/a)

using more-than, less-than as brackets

Aug 7, 2019 at 4:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Wednesday, a good letter points out that the 1956 clean air act was not the main driver of cleaner air

#1 in the 60s We switched from town gas to natural gas
#2 gas replaced coal/oil as main house heating
#3 same for commercial
#4 1990 when ban on using natural gas for electrity generation was lifted

I'd also say that moving power stations out of urban zones made a difference.

Aug 7, 2019 at 4:06 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Mon 5th Interview with Mark Broomfield about his book about his air inspection work.
The article does repeat the normal PR rubbish like 40K deaths, but had to talk about how UK air has got way cleaner

He claims particulates haven't fallen for 20 years now
says 10% of them are from bonfires.
He doesn't use his own woodstove

As ever the analysis is naive
ie doesn't point out the difference between emissions levels and what you breathe. etc.

Aug 7, 2019 at 6:11 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times ran this story the same as the Telegraph
mentioning only this years total deaths
The BBC graph gives you a totally different spin.

Telegraph "Asthma deaths rise by one third"
yet that is contradicted by the BBC graph
which shows the rate varying from 1000 to 1,400 /yr
and in 1,300 in 2003 fell to 1,000 by 2009 to rise to 1,400 now
the rate is till pretty low
5 million people have asthma and 12,000 have died in the last 10 years

Aug 10, 2019 at 2:44 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen