Discussion > President Trump
Sorry, I can't help you, you're too far gone. Stone did not testify in his own defence nor did he produce any defence witnesses, that would seem to me hugely more relevant to the verdict than the jury makeup. A jury that unanimously found him guilty on all counts. Nobody credible doubts that guilt.
Two other jurors testified that the foreperson did not pressure anyone to give a particular verdict and conducted the deliberations in an impartial manner.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-25/roger-stone-judge-slams-jury-bias-claims-at-hearing-on-new-trial
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/why-the-armed-fbi-raid-on-roger-stones-home-was-justified-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-collusion
Phil Clarke
You make the mistake I feel of thinking that I endorse Roger Stone
Stone was arrested on seven criminal charges of an indictment in the Mueller investigation: one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering.
Mueller ... what I do know about Stone is that he nettled Mueller's team repeatedly and that they were out to settle a number of slights they perceived Stone had thrown at them and - he'd been on Beelzebub's team for a spell so the association was handy... and they sorely needed some scalps as they'd not managed to make the Russia collusion accusations stick... (but then they knew that those were lies even before Mueller's investigation started)
As I understand it - Stone does not have the financial resources to fight a Federal case and no associates who'd stump the hundreds of thousands of dollars required for a structured defence either. He chose to provoke Mueller's team and paid the price for that.
They should have just charged him with impugning the motives and integrity of Mueller's team - he chose to treat them with contempt - I suspect he isn't sorry that he did that.
In all - the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible - your attempts to decorate the mess with a tawdry veneer of decency are typical of your style.
Why can't you accept that it's been a lawfare political scrap from the get go?
.... oh yeah... Orange Man Bad and "by any means necessary"...
Stone is simply collateral damage.
The MSM have played down the Stone indictment's relationship to the Mueller investigation - Mueller + team rarely got much public credit for nailing Stone.
Meanwhile, bits of dirt are being ejected from the hole that Judge Sullivan has dug for himself.
tomo
You didn't challenge the CNN account, you just assumed there must be collusion between the FBI and CNN. No evidence, natch.
Jul 11, 2020 Phil Clarke
How many Hockey Teamsters have been involved in colluding with CNN and the FBI to fabricate evidence?
How many years in prison should Collaborators be awarded?
golf charlie
You make the mistake I feel of thinking that I endorse Roger Stone
Not so much, more that you attributed his conviction to jury-fixing - based as usual on just mist - rather than the rather more plausible explanation that he was guilty of the offences.
Combined with the smokescreen about the way he was arrested, described by a former FBI agent as utterly normal bog-standard standard operating procedure, and well, it's just classic Tomo, no?
Phil Clarke
Stone obviously thought the jury was fixed - the judge was self evidently biased.
The American judicial system is riddled with political bias and corruption.
What part of "political trial" don't you get? This wasn't scripted by John Mortimer.
"a former FBI agent" who magically happens to be CNN's very well paid law enforcement nabob / pundit? other ex FBI / law enforcement people differ ... quality links from Clarky again. - you need to stick that quote from Dr David Bell on your bathroom mirror.
Was it a win for Mueller ? - his name seems rarely to be associated with the matter.... maybe because people might be reminded that his investigation was a political job and based on lies.
ps care to explain why Aaron Zelinsky was shoved out of the trial?
tomo
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/07/10/the-special-counsels-office-corrupt-to-the-very-end/
fred
Well, at least my FBI agent was a genuine FBI agent. I didn't link to a screenshot of a fake tweet.
So perceptive.
;-)
Phil Clarke
For a long time, I was of the opinion that the reason that Dishonest Don was terrified of people seeing his tax returns was that he was nowhere near as wealthy as he claimed to be, in the Trump family, the size of your bank balance is everything, and I did not believe he was sufficiently dumb to commit actual tax fraud.
However, Pulitzer prize winner and Trump biographer David Cay Johnston sees inditements ahead
Phil Clarke
Phil Clarke
You might have thought that the first obligation of any Government was to prevent the populace dying off in large numbers. Apparently not.
Phil Clarke
Jul 12, 2020 at 2:05 AM Phil Clarke
How many Africans have died because they have been deprived of cheap reliable power by Climate Scientists, and starved to death by Climate Scientists?
How many Awards has Mann been given by Climate Scientists for his achievements?
The US BLM movement really ought to focus their aggression on Democrats and their support for Climate Scientists.
golf charlie
Mention Aaron Zelinsky and look what happens - gosh indeed.
If you're going to dig up Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen you might want to throw in James Racey Jordan and the embarrassing procession of Soviet spies in the FDR administrations? Hanssen is interesting though as membership of Opus Dei adds some spice to his profile - not an everyday club that.
I'd wager that if there's anything spicy in Orange Man's tax returns we'll be treated to a leak since routine process puts disclosure an inconvenient 6+ months away. What is curious is that Obama's IRS - not noted for restraint or even honest behaviour (i.e. Lois "I plead the 5th" Lerner) didn't crucify DJT ... why's that?
so, was anything in Wikileaks untrue? - regardless of its provenance.
elsewhere - do regale us with what the present Democrat leadership have achieved / done wrt the coronavirus.
tomo
ooh... look - Bob's woken up
tomo
For context (and accuracy) ;-)
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1172314710131109890
https://www.ontheissues.org/2020/Joe_Biden_Drugs.htm
Phil Clarke
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1282092886948024321?s=20
fred
I see Tucker's top writer is leaving Fox after 'horrific racist, misogynistic and homophobic behavior.'
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.
Phil Clarke
Phil
Nah, yr' not shocked, not at all.
I appreciate your presence here. Without you I would think this site was exclusively an elephant trackway. But you remind me that there is another view.
AK
If everyone who lied to Congress / intimidated witnesses / obstructed investigations must be prosecuted, why is it Brennan, Clapper, Corney, Strzock et al. haven't been charged?
Genuine question.
tomo
259 days on a golf course that he owns in his 1,270 days in office....
tomo
tomo
"But you remind me that there is another view.
Jul 12, 2020 at 2:19 PM AK"
Whenever there is something that is correct, Climate Science has another view and Phil Clarke has a link to the source.
golf charlie
....the fact it’s based on a lie won’t matter to his base.
Phil Clarke
Is it reasonable to compare James Wolfe who exchanged Carter Page classified information for actual blow jobs and lied to law enforcement - to Roger Stone?
fred
https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1282413613660209152
Phil Clarke
Au contraire Clarky - I call BS on the CNN account - but who is some random bloke on the Internet ? If you can show me a claimed process crime arrest that justified a small hours raid by a tactical team of 29 Federal agents I'll pay attention - otherwise just GFY. The norm aiui is for the accused to hand themselves in and get instantly bailed ( which actually happened) if there is no risk of flight or witness tampering (which Mueller accused him of !).
Berman-Jackson's political grandstanding and the farcical loading of the jury - what is the probability that Tomeka Hart was randomly on that jury? The case was predicated on there being Russia collusion to install Beelzebub as POTUS and Mueller's team of Democrat lawfare operatives had a hand in the charges....
Of course one cannot apply the similar standards to members of Congress like say Adam Schiff ... who has demonstrably lied repeatedly to Congress but claims sovereign immunity!
"Nobody should be in jail for a non violent crime" Joe Biden September 2019