Discussion > GHG Theory step by step
Vineyards in the Outer Hebrides, these days.
So Lamb places the MWP at 800-1000AD. Here's a NoTricksZone approved proxy
http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-Equatorial-Atlantic-SST-Rosenthal-17.jpg
Not global then.
Been having some fun over there. The NTZ modus operandi is to scan the literature for any graph that supports his 'No warming' theme, remove it, and upload the standalone graph with a 'No warming in wherever' caption.
My favourite is Canada Central – no warming.
Which is taken from Gajewski and Viau 2009. The concluding paragraph of that paper reads
Our results show that at no time during the Holocene have millennial-scale temperature variations exceeded 10.78C in boreal Canada (Table 1). These results therefore show that presently observed temperature increases in northern Canada far exceed natural variability found in this study, providing paleoclimatic support for human cause of the present day global warming.
No Tricks Zone? Lol.
Estimates based on recent observed temperatures, such as Otto et al, include fast feedbacks but not slow feedbacks and cluster around ECS=2.0
Estimates based on paleo evidence include slow feedbacks and cluster around 4.0.
I have done a number of ECS calculations myself and got similar results.
Having done my own review of ECS, I see no reason to change the current values.
Radical rodent
Perhaps you could provide your evidence that the Antarctic is increasing.
Around the edge it is decreasing.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-018-0082-z
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-antarctic-sea-ice-second-straight-year.html
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-antarctic-sea-ice-second-straight-year.html
Apr 2, 2018 at 8:44 PM | Phil Clarke
"Sea ice cover in Antarctica has dropped to its second-lowest on record, Australian authorities said Friday, adding that it was not yet clear what was driving the reduction after several years of record-highs."
Presumably no one got paid to report several years of record-highs?
Around the edge it is decreasing.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-018-0082-z
Apr 2, 2018 at 8:32 PM | Entropic man
"Between 2010 and 2016, 22%, 3% and 10% of surveyed grounding lines in West Antarctica, East Antarctica and at the Antarctic Peninsula retreated at rates faster than 25 m yr−1 (the typical pace since the Last Glacial Maximum) and the continent has lost 1,463 km2 ± 791 km2 of grounded-ice area. "
Nothing very significant. 1,463km2 is about 4 Isle's of Wight.
What happened in the other 78%, 97% and 90% of surveyed grounding lines?
When will it dawn on GC that the discovery of northern viticulture in the dark ages leaves precious little room into which the MWP can warm?
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-grapes-of-horvath.html
Congrats to Josh on his fine likeness of David Legates in need of a shave !
Apr 2, 2018 at 10:58 PM | Russell
Do you know what caused the Iron Age Warm Period that your link suggests? That must be something else that Mann ironed out of his Hockey Stick. Was it the same as either the Minoan or Roman Warm Periods?
What were the great wines of Greenland known as? Iglooneuf du Polar Bear? Cotes de Fram Straight? Did they get into Trademark issues when they devised a fizzy white? Was the Battle of Stamford Bridge just an attempt to crush English gripes?
Click.. Read Full Article
Climate Alarmists May Inherit the Wind
Bear in mind these accounts of two apocalyptic climate events that occurred naturally came from a witness for plaintiffs looking to prove American oil companies are responsible for small changes in present-day climate.
GC:
Herewith, the wine list you MWP whingers most fear :
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2015/06/mark-steyn-and-medieval-cooler-than-now.html
Oh Russell. A thousand years of breeding, multiple changes in root stock - these can be dismissed by you? Comparison of Roman vineyards with those of today without consideration of these changes, together with technological change, is surely beneath your intellect?
Apr 3, 2018 at 8:20 AM | vvussell
No it wasn't.
The shaft of Mann's Hockey Stick is a false record
The uptick blade of Mann's Hockey Stick has nothing to corroborate it.
Do you stand by indoctrinations about ECS, or do you have other ideas about why Climate Science went so wrong, (or got so desperate?) that it was happy to accept Mann's Hockey Stick 20 years ago?
Entropic Man & Radical Rodent
Antarctic Temperature Data Contradict Global Warming…”Much Warmer” 105 Years Ago!
http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.O7uMaLbF.dpbs
By P Gosselin on 3. April 2018
Growing sea ice
Despite all the alarmist claims of an Antarctic meltdown, it is well known that the trend for sea ice extent at the South Pole has been one of growing ice rather than shrinking ice over the past 4 decades.
Do Polar Bears poo on Peer Reviewed Climate Smearologists?
https://retractionwatch.com/2018/04/02/caught-our-notice-climate-change-leads-to-more-neurosurgery-for-polar-bears/
You haven't figured out how NTZ operates then?
The high Antacrtic temperatures (+10C above climatology) were recorded by the Amundsen and Scott expeditions, they were followed by an extreme cold spell, which was finished the Scott party.
Kenneth also noted that the 1911/12 temperature anomalies reached “greater than 10°C”.Imagine the media hysteria if such warmth happened today. The many climate neurotics out there would be shrieking, demanding a state of emergency.
Siberia reached +35C this February, the Arctic +20C
Apr 3, 2018 at 5:34 PM | Phil Clarke
Everyone knows that Peer Reviewed Climate Science has become a joke.
Can you help save the good bits, by trying to ignore previous rubbish about ECS?
Classic NTZ, really. They say
The question remains: What’s happening to the temperature of the entire south pole, other than sea ice trending upwards? Last year Kenneth Richard posted here on this, presenting recent literature by Stenni et al which shows that the South Pole is indeed cooling:
And while the paper notes the lack of a continental-scale warming trend projected by the models, it also says nothing about recent cooling, in fact
"Since 1900 CE, significant warming trends are identified for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the Dronning Maud Land coast and the Antarctic Peninsula regions, and these trends are robust across the distribution of records that contribute to the unweighted isotopic composites and also significant in the weighted temperature reconstructions."
https://www.clim-past.net/13/1609/2017/
Abstract. Climate trends in the Antarctic region remain poorly characterized, owing to the brevity and scarcity of direct climate observations and the large magnitude of interannual to decadal-scale climate variability. Here, within the framework of the PAGES Antarctica2k working group, we build an enlarged database of ice core water stable isotope records from Antarctica, consisting of 112 records. We produce both unweighted and weighted isotopic (δ18O) composites and temperature reconstructions since 0 CE, binned at 5- and 10-year resolution, for seven climatically distinct regions covering the Antarctic continent. Following earlier work of the Antarctica2k working group, we also produce composites and reconstructions for the broader regions of East Antarctica, West Antarctica and the whole continent. We use three methods for our temperature reconstructions: (i) a temperature scaling based on the δ18O–temperature relationship output from an ECHAM5-wiso model simulation nudged to ERA-Interim atmospheric reanalyses from 1979 to 2013, and adjusted for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet region to borehole temperature data, (ii) a temperature scaling of the isotopic normalized anomalies to the variance of the regional reanalysis temperature and (iii) a composite-plus-scaling approach used in a previous continent-scale reconstruction of Antarctic temperature since 1 CE but applied to the new Antarctic ice core database. Our new reconstructions confirm a significant cooling trend from 0 to 1900 CE across all Antarctic regions where records extend back into the 1st millennium, with the exception of the Wilkes Land coast and Weddell Sea coast regions. Within this long-term cooling trend from 0 to 1900 CE, we find that the warmest period occurs between 300 and 1000 CE, and the coldest interval occurs from 1200 to 1900 CE. Since 1900 CE, significant warming trends are identified for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the Dronning Maud Land coast and the Antarctic Peninsula regions, and these trends are robust across the distribution of records that contribute to the unweighted isotopic composites and also significant in the weighted temperature reconstructions. Only for the Antarctic Peninsula is this most recent century-scale trend unusual in the context of natural variability over the last 2000 years. However, projected warming of the Antarctic continent during the 21st century may soon see significant and unusual warming develop across other parts of the Antarctic continent. The extended Antarctica2k ice core isotope database developed by this working group opens up many avenues for developing a deeper understanding of the response of Antarctic climate to natural and anthropogenic climate forcings. The first long-term quantification of regional climate in Antarctica presented herein is a basis for data–model comparison and assessments of past, present and future driving factors of Antarctic climate.
"Since 1900 CE, significant warming trends are identified for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the Dronning Maud Land coast and the Antarctic Peninsula regions, and these trends are robust across the distribution of records that contribute to the unweighted isotopic composites and also significant in the weighted temperature reconstructions."
Apr 3, 2018 at 8:13 PM | Phil Clarke
How do they know what happened since 1900, and do they know what happened in the previous century, and why?
When climate science describes findings as robust, they tend to be anything but.
Do you have anything further about ECS being overestimated, or are 97% of Climate Scientists sticking with their previously robust determinations, even though observations confirm their mistakes?
Vexatious litigant Mann exposes himself, as a hypocrite.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/04/03/mann-and-lewandowskys-polar-bear-paper-enters-bizzaroland-climate-change-leads-to-moreneurosurgery-for-polar-bears/
Mann and Lewandowsky’s polar bear paper enters bizzaroland: Climate change leads to more…neurosurgery for polar bears?
Anthony Watts / 3 hours ago April 3, 2018
The two most bizarre people in the climate debate have now had the most bizarre thing happen to them and their garbage science paper that basically become a peer reviewd smear of Dr. Susan Crockford.
Troll, Did they name the polar bear's favorite mutant grape after you , or was it the other way round?
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2015/06/mark-steyn-and-medieval-cooler-than-now.html
Here are directions if you want to drop in for a tasting:
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2018/04/pairs-well-with-polar-bear-pate-frozen.html
I suppose we ought to be grateful that Polar Bears and viticulture do not thrive together.
http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.YXQF5OuK.dpbs
"During The 800s-1300s AD, Wine Grapes Were Grown At Latitudes Where Polar Bears Now Roam
By Kenneth Richard on 2. April 2018
1-2°C Warmer Medieval Times Supported Wine Vineyards In Russia, Norway, N England (55°N)
According to published geological evidence from the 1950s, remnants of wine grape vineyards have been unearthed in regions as far north as the polar-bear-inhabiting 55th parallel during the Medieval Warm Period (~800s to 1300s AD)."
The sources quoted include Lamb, so far more reliable than Real Climate Scientists.