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Discussion > EVs - Charging / Solar Panels

The future beckons (from a thread on Pistonheads):
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1940962

The next few months may get interesting for EV users with lots of families hitting the road at weekends to go on or return from holidays. The queues for fuel at service stations are often quite lengthy. With the far greater time needed to "fuel" an EV, some hassle looks likely.

Jul 5, 2021 at 11:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

MikeHig

Cue queues of dejected Leaf owners - I notice that the electron pump owners are quite reticent about reliability - particularly Dale Vince's Ecotricity crew.

Maybe there's an opportunity for towing a generator around :-)

That collection of half a dozen dejected Leaf drivers at Gloucester Farm services on the M5 a couple of years ago waiting for the single functional charger on a summer Sunday late afternoon made me smile at the time.

Jul 7, 2021 at 12:58 AM | Registered Commentertomo

tomo: I suspect there may be plenty of unhappy stories. I heard an advert for the AA which emphasised their capabilities wrt EVs.....

Jul 7, 2021 at 12:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

Following up on that last post, the AA advert says they don't charge extra for EVs and they have more EV-qualified service personnel than any other provider.
Methinks they can see which way the wind is blowing.....

Jul 9, 2021 at 9:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

MikeHig

I don't do Pistonheads forums much these days - I'm wondering about the emissions qualification test cycle for PHEVs - have you seen any discussion of that miles per battery aided gallon / low emissions actual testing is around the place?

Volvo, Porsche and Mercedes all have executive express offerings that have puny batteries that don't stand up to a heavy right foot I hear - I was wondering what they have to do (in detail) to get those magic emissions numbers?

Jul 13, 2021 at 11:07 PM | Registered Commentertomo
Jul 14, 2021 at 2:42 PM | Registered Commentertomo

tomo,
It's my impression that the published test figures are unverifiable in real life. There are far too many variables at play so the test regime has to guess a few scenarios and then measure each vehicle accordingly.
I remember one comment on a PH thread a while back which illustrates the point. The poster had a PHEV which he used to commute to his office. It could do that on battery power alone. So, most weekdays, he used no fuel at all. The weekends were another story however as many trips exceeded battery range and any long runs returned relatively poor figures - as you would expect for a hefty vehicle with all the added EV clobber - and less use of regeneration.
Also it does seem that there is truth in the anecdotes. People have these things as company cars because of the massive tax benefits. Their company pays for fuel so they rarely, if ever, bother with charging. Human nature!
Generally users report that battery-only range is less than advertised: 20 - 25 miles versus a claimed 30+, for example.

Jul 14, 2021 at 10:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

I haven't had the opportunity to read and digest the linked paper.

I'm really curious about the exact details required for PHEVs to swerve assorted taxes and charges as well as suck up the BIK lolly...

Jul 15, 2021 at 3:52 PM | Registered Commentertomo

tomo: that's a very good point which I had not considered before. The WLTP figures for conventional cars, even mild hybrids, are unrealistic but not massively so and they do seem to reflect the capacity/power/weight/drag/etc of different vehicles.
That's not the case for the majority of PHEVs, if all the anecdotal evidence and road tests are any guide.
There's no obvious solution, other than trying to make the testing more representative; nor is there any way, afaik, to verify that PHEVs run on electric power only when in low emission zones.
The incentives should be phased out.

Jul 18, 2021 at 1:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

Brits go for the electric flight speed record.

Sounds like it'd be prudent to carry a fire extinguisher / have an ejector seat.

BBC here

Jul 20, 2021 at 4:04 PM | Registered Commentertomo

So the current electric record is where the piston aircraft record was about 100 years ago ( 223 mph in Oct 1922).
If they reach 300 mph, they will have caught up to 1927 (298 mph in Nov 1927).

There's a way to go!

Jul 22, 2021 at 10:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

69p per kW non account at Ionity is a high water mark....

When the money is transacted instantly these that's pretty cheeky to lock in customers.

No difficult to imagine that the tax grabbers will attack EVs eventually and I can easily imagine that systems might only be set up to accept cars charging on a special circuit with centralised control that pays considerably more tax.

Jul 23, 2021 at 11:39 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Here's me getting a definite amount of adverts for the the London E-Prix ... and thinking it would be fun if they had to use public charging facilities nearby....

On Zapmap - the majority of chargers look to be out of proper service - most only offering 7kW .... - you'd think that for such a prestigious event that Khan's PR team would've been prodding the providers to ensure that everything was performing faultlessly for the weekend :-)

Jul 24, 2021 at 6:14 PM | Registered Commentertomo

And now the CMA is looking into the recent takeover activity in the charger business, especially the lock-ins with some motorway service companies.

As for taxing EVs, my guess is that the RFL will soon be replaced/supplemented by a mileage based tax, possibly graded by the emission stats of the vehicles. I think I'm right that all new cars have, for some time, been internet-enabled so their mileage can be tracked easily. Older stuff could be picked up via the MOT, lease returns or even an option to fit a tracker.
If/when that happens the EV crowd will squeal but it will be hard to argue against, especially as EVs probably inflict more wear and tear with their extra weight and massive torque.

Now that the holiday season is in full swing, I am waiting to see if there are reports of queues at chargers and/or lots of stranded EVs.
I've seen a rising number of forum comments about the difficulties of finding chargers that are working, unoccupied and able to charge at a high rate. There are tales of woe from folk who had to resort to 22 or even 7 kW units in extremis.

Jul 24, 2021 at 10:27 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

I wonder if there's been anybody prosecuted yet for abstracting electrons for an EV from a lampost - I'm unsure what a standard (if there is one) current is but the post outside my house has a 16mm^2 cable which should be good for notionally 80A - but - say 15kW (without releasing magic smoke)... There are going to be some anxious, desperate people out there.

A module with a 32A plug and a contactless debit card that replaces the standard access hatch on a streetlamp might prove a popular item? - at 69p/kW/h I'd be fitting them all over the place :-)

I've just acquired another e-bike and am re-acquainting myself with range anxiety (and the weather).

Jul 24, 2021 at 11:00 PM | Registered Commentertomo

That's a good idea and it's already happening. Apparently there are quite a lot of streetlamp charging points in places like Holland and Belgium. They are starting to appear here too.
It's my impression that most of our streetlamps are set back from the kerb rather than standing right on the edge of the road. That's bound to cause problems with charging leads trailing across the pavement: trip hazards, vandalism, etc..
Also I wonder how strong the circuit is? That beefy cable you mention may not be sufficient when the load becomes many times that of the light itself. Then there are those cheese-paring councils which programme their lights to go off through the small hours to save power.....

Jul 25, 2021 at 9:43 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

@MikeHig

The streetlight supply circuits are usually permanently powered with the individual luminaires fitted with radio code receivers that allow remote control. Motorways and dual carriageways have different wiring ...

I doubt that an urban street light circuit would support more than 20kW in total. Anti-trip sleeves for cables are available although copper thieves will remain a menace.... It'd only be a very small plaster on quite a big wound.

I was thinking more of HarryTuttle the subversive HVAC engineer in Terry Gilliam's Brazil movie than Central Services latest wheeze.

elsewhere

More biofuel b*ll*cks

Jul 25, 2021 at 12:09 PM | Registered Commentertomo

That biofuel nonsense reads like something out of one of Ayn Rans books!

One big plus point for EVs which does not get much visibility.....they are rubbish as tow cars!
Indeed many are not certified to even have a towbar fitted which is unfortunate for folk who use towball-mounted bike carriers. Those that are usually have a very low tow weight.

So....what will the caravaners do? Could this mean they will become a rare sight (hopefully)?

Jul 26, 2021 at 11:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

MikeHig

that biofuels piece is really quite tortured isn't it? - i'm still unclear about what the direct impact on participants in the fraud actually experience - cynically more (taxpayer) monies for less work and even less accountability would be my guess since no worked examples are offered.

One wonders at the mindset / motivation of people who conjure up such stuff.

Jul 26, 2021 at 2:43 PM | Registered Commentertomo

MikeHig

VW ad for towing with EV

"Greg's Airplanes" channel on YouTube is working up a piece including Calum Douglas's work - that will be worth looking out for I reckon.

Ian at the Typhoon project is pulling apart a Merlin ....

Jul 29, 2021 at 1:58 PM | Registered Commentertomo

tomo: the towing weight is relatively light....
"VW ID.4 Towing Capabilities At the global reveal event for the ID.4 VW stated the car will be able to tow up to 2,700 lbs (1,200 kg). However, as of right now, the first ID.4 which will be coming to the UK is the car in '1st' trim, which is RWD with a towing capacity of 1,000 kg."
I'm guessing that will limit it to pretty small 'vans and trailers.
As the twitter comment said.....what will happen to the range?

Thanks for the aero stuff. I'll keep an eye out.

Jul 29, 2021 at 3:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

re the VW ID.4

as a sometime boat tower - I'd guess that rig in the photo is over the tow limit quoted with fuel and an engine :-) If memory serves the ad was mostly not on an actual public road too. Getting into a charger will likely precipitate some antics. That said - I read about a mechanic in the US with a Tesla + recovery trailer who sings the praises of the braking in particular - always a dodgy part of trailers.... Insta-torque is a plus too as modern manual transmission towing vehicles seem to have too high a 1st gear and reverse for manoeuvring on slopes. I was talking to a Tesla repair man earlier this week and he'd just seen a 120k mile Model S with its first set of front disk pads only half worn.

I'm waiting for the first boat ramp slide-y event caught on video.

Jul 29, 2021 at 10:16 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Exeter this morning

Three charging, two waiting

Jul 30, 2021 at 11:26 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Handily behind a paywall at the Telegraph - EVs and the UK electricity grid.

but not in Iceland

Jul 30, 2021 at 11:43 AM | Registered Commentertomo

I liked this reply to the question of queueing etiquette for chargers:
"Good question. Me, being me, goes up and talks to everyone and makes clear what the order is….. then you hover with passive aggression, while yabbering smugly about how pure of soul you are to drive an EV…..

That may work when there are only a few cars but I think they will need to have a "queue park" at busy places. There will always be the sharks who zip into a vacated slot out of turn. In most situations it's not worth making a fuss because the inconvenience is minor. Not so in this case; we can expect reports of "charger rage", imho.

Jul 31, 2021 at 9:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig