Alan Kendall on May 2, 2016 at 7:06 PM
" I have always believed that erecting barriers causes greater problems, than breaking them down."

Boundary conditions often define the properties of the entity and are required for every component in a physical machine, political machine, and even in computer models. :)

Looks like the Schengen Area proves this proverb's converse: good fences make good neighbors

Good neighbors respect one another's property.

Good farmers, for example, maintain their fences in order to keep their livestock from wandering onto neighboring farms. This proverb appears in the poem “Mending Wall,” by Robert Frost.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/good-fences-make-good-neighbors

Alan Kendall on May 2, 2016 at 6:29 PM
"Why can't a British government control its civil service within the EU?"

Those within the Civil Service are supposed to, and do, take orders from their superiors, their managers, until the top is reached! Then, those at the top take their cue, their direction, from their political masters, and that used to be ministers of the crown.

It is now the EU bureaucrats. They are like minded because they do not face the electorate. They look to plan long term, and can ignore the economics, any local problems, in fact, anything outside the system, and that includes the voters - as long as they have an agreed plan, which the EU mandarins are only too willing to supply! Who said HS2? There are also career 'opportunities', from luxurious committee appointments to luxurious permanent appointments that are ABSOLUTELY required for the smooth running of the bureaucracy. :)

Their local masters, our national politicians, cannot offers such prizes.

Culture is more important than politics!

In addition, the Civil Service in each EU country have more in common with each other than their politicians, especially with all that EU networking that is required as part of their official work. The politicians in each country, meanwhile, diverge as they need to connect with their voters who will have their own national interests. The politicians will also know that they will need to horse trade with the politicians from the other countries. With Germany in a dominant position, accepting second best and falling in line with German views does mean an easier life and less chance of being blocked and having your political failure across the front pages. Just go with the flow, make decisions before the investigation is complete or even started, so everything can be presented as a success, even though it isn't. Did someone mention HS2?

When a public company's shares are raided, and is then taken over, the power play changes. Once you have experienced it, from afar or not, it is much easier to see how our politicians have lost control. It happens in most groups where there is a hierarchy. The problem we have is that the EU Elite have to disown their own country and therefore increase their eliteness.

As for a solution, the simplest is to undo the changes that caused the problem and see where the system needs tweaking. Often, much of the surrounding system accommodates the changes, so understanding how international politics, business and trade operates and having uptodate information is the way to go: and success will breed success. Agreeing the treatment by committee, beforehand, will only make the situation worse. That is what the Remainians keep requesting. :)

When a paramedic start resuscitating a patient, he doesn't look for proof that his actions will be successful, he knows that without assistance, the patient will die. He also needs to adapt treatment, depending on the patients symptoms.

So, given the knowledge presented, it is not surprising that we want to Brixit. It is not that success is inevitable, it is that without Brexit, failure is certain: our Civil Service will end up working for a foreign power, not the British public and Britain will cease to be.

It is a business decision. Each country has a demos, has an identity and each is a complex set of businesses. There is no proof available to follow, only decisions based on an understanding of how groups and individuals behave in real life. Others don't necessarily play by the rules; as Hannan has said, 'the EU keep changing the rules', so we need to be smart and not naively trusting. We are not dealing with members of the Commonwealth, where we created the rules, matured by many years of use, and a common tradition.

Sorry about the emotion in the article :)

"BRUSSELS police could end up patrolling Britain’s streets and arresting our citizens under radical proposals put forward by Jean-Claude Juncker’s in-house think tank.

Europe’s elite should take away Britain’s ability to investigate and prosecute terrorists and place wide-ranging powers in the hands of unaccountable Euro officials instead, according to a bombshell report.

The dynamite proposal, from the European Commission’s own policy think-tank, suggests creating a centralised EU intelligence agency which would override the Met Police, MI5 and MI6.

In its disturbing report the think-tank calls on European leaders to act “fast” and create an EU “Security Union” which would see an enormous transfer of powers from Westminster to Brussels.

Under the plans the EU’s own police force would take over responsibility for investigating and prosecuting terrorists in Britain, with the cases then tried by Euro officials in our courts.

Investigations would be carried out by a centralised European security agency, which would answer only to unelected bureaucrats but would have carte blanche to operate with impunity in the UK above the heads of our own law enforcement officials.

Disturbingly the proposal is believed to have a number of high-profile backers including Belgium’s government and Dimitris Avramopoulos, the EU’s all-powerful Home Affairs commissioner."
Daily Express: EU POWER GRAB: Terrifying Brussels plot to replace OUR police and judges with Euro stooges

I wonder if Cameron knew about this?

Was it included in his renegotiations?

Did anyone else from Britain know about this: any MPs, in the Civil Service, in the Lords, in the BBC :) ?

Have these groups been told yet? Was that before the Express knew?

What other surprises do we have in store, after June 23rd?

Alan Kendall on May 3, 2016 at 8:06 AM
"NEWSPAPERS LIE, ALWAYS HAVE, ALWAYS WILL."

It must be because, unlike us :) , they live in perpetual seriousness:

"Jean-Claude Juncker:
When it becomes serious you have to lie."

"A MAJOR leak from Brussels has revealed the NHS will be killed off if Britain remains in the European Union.

Hundreds of papers from the secretive trade talks between the US and EU have been released online.

They appear to confirm fears that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership talks between Brussels and Washington will, when ratified, lead to the health service being privatised or dismantled.

The documents, obtained by Greenpeace Netherlands, include a US proposal to have a committee with representatives from Washington and Brussels to meet each year “to review state-owned enterprises and monopolies” which would include the NHS.

The committee would meet annually and would not be guaranteed a representative from Britain.

But it would still be able to review state-run services in this country. Its duties would include checking that state services do not “distort” the market.

One section of the papers makes it clear that the EU and America would seek eventually to end all forms of state intervention in competition with the private sector.

It says: “The parties acknowledge that anti-competitive business practices and state interventions have the potential to distort the proper functioning of markets and undermine the benefits of trade liberalisation.”

Opponents of TTIP have long argued that including healthcare in the treaty will force the privatisation of the NHS or at least make the process impossible to reverse.

EU officials claim they will have wording that allows for the NHS to be protected but have so far failed to provide a full exemption.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister David Cameron has refused to ask for an exemption while trying to persuade British voters to back the Remain campaign in the EU Referendum.

Pro-Brexit campaigners have long warned that if Britain remains in the EU it will see its health service privatised and the NHS broken up."

Daily Express: Major leak from Brussels reveals NHS will be ‘KILLED OFF’ if Britain remains in the EU

The unasked question (until now) is, in seeking to end 'all forms of state intervention in competition with the private sector', will this included the BBC?

How can it, when they are 'checking that state services do not “distort” the market', and I expect one of Juncker's aides will tell us the truth and say that these leaks are only draft documents, so will never see the light of day.

:)

Dung, jollyfarmer,

Here is the article's link:
EU Referendum: the TTIP leaks

Richard North's site is a useful one, beside this article.

These last few posts here do show that the Brexit supporters need several groups in order to gather all the information! Something that the Remainers are keen to discourage and putdown.

I expect this lack of information will become standard practice if we 'Remain'.

The Euro-Elite need to disown their native country before they can join, so it really will be a supra-national state, led by a foreign power. And they were supposed to have stopped releasing anything that would 'upset' us before the referendum: what a shower!

Daily Express: EU BORDER THREAT: Brussels to fine countries €250,000 for EVERY REFUGEE refused entry
"BRUSSELS is set to slap EU states with eye-watering fines of €250,000 for every refugee they refuse - twisting states' arms into accepting controversial migrant quotas."

Daily Express: German plot to keep EU army a SECRET till June 23 EXPOSED as plans drawn up in Berlin
"Along with judicial, tax and immigration issues, a Euro army has for long been one of the main irritants of anti-EU campaigners.

The fact that Germany - the powerhouse of the project - is mooting one so close to the referendum on whether Britain stays or goes is seen as madness by politicians fighting to keep the UK within the group.

Now a white paper has been drawn up by Berlin.

Media reports suggest that the Germans wanted to keep its proposals secret until after the June 23 plebiscite but it has now been leaked."

BBC: Migrant crisis: EU Commission 'to back' Turkey visa deal
"The European Commission will back visa-free travel for Turkish citizens inside Europe's passport-free Schengen area, sources have told the BBC."

Not all of the above immediately affects Britain, but just look at the political machinery at work. Where is the Democracy? Where is the discussion among the elected representatives of the People?

If we Remain, how long can we resist the 'Ever Closer Union' in which the Continentals are immersed? They are oblivious to the lack of an exit strategy.

I know I am repeating questions, but DID David Cameron have ANY idea about these policies? If YES, then he is a traitor, and if NO, he is completely incompetent and needs to go - this week!

Mike Jackson on May 3, 2016 at 8:56 PM

Are you happy with Cameron being so economical with the truth, or is it ignorance?

The Government's recent brochure that landed on everyone's doormat originated from a different universe, but used our money. I am appalled. It is no different with Heath not mentioning the sacrifice of our fishing industry in 1974.

If Cameron was doing his job, we wouldn't have had the surprises that we have had over the last few days.

He is supposed to be our Prime Minister, capable, and in charge of British interests.

Obviously he is none of these, and he gives every appearance of being committed to deceiving the British voters, following an alien agenda. He is making Britain look ridiculous, from this side of the Channel, anyway. There is no option to remain in the EU as it is today: we either leave or fall headlong into 'Ever Closer Union'. We have even been told that this is so by many of the Euro-Elite.

I think Cameron is a disgrace as prime minister.

Mike Jackson on May 5, 2016 at 11:40 AM
"If you want out then give us reasons that make sense."

I have discussed these issues with Continentals only a few years ago and, in general, they do not have the ability to see how Britain and the Anglo-sphere view business, politics and everything else that is involved. Although some can see it, it pains them to discuss it, and to think it could be applied to their own country would be a step too far. On the Continent, the prized jobs are in politics, the bureaucracy and any important industrial job that was linked to political power. Britain may have veered towards this attitude since 1997, but it is not her natural course.

I do see both approaches. I see that they like central control, whereas we just want the politicians to do the minimum, as they should do in the legal world, and set rules, guidelines for others to follow, like the Highway Code, not telling you of your destination or even your route.

Both views generates problems but because, in each case, they are our part of our respective heritages, we think we have partial solutions in our social infrastructure and heritage (which are vastly different) that we have used before, and they just need a tweak. :) Deviate too much, and we loose any expertise.

All their big ideas, with which Britain has trouble, from CAP, CFP, the Euro, Schengen to wine lakes, have failed: they are littered throughout this thread, along with some of the reasons why they are gormless. We have had an empire, and most are pleased that Britain has been relieved of that burden, though we did learn a lot from it. The Continental politicians have yet to acknowledge that there are difficulties involved with having power. For example, their politicians have invited into their countries millions of illiterates and then wonder how they can manage, fining countries if they don't take their share! Stupid! And endlessly borrowing and no one owning up to owning the debt. Yes, Britain has plenty of debt, but at least it is our own debt, and no one else's.

I accept that the Continentals are different to the British. It isn't my fault; I can't change it, even if I pretended 'ever so hard'. They are not wrong, just different. They can do what they want. Britain should not stop them. Why Obama, or anyone else, thinks Britain should burden itself with keeping the Continentals 'on track' is beyond me, apart from self interest.

Our influence in Brussels is on the wane, so why not be independent:
Brexit or not, Britain’s already isolated in Brussels

If you think that the Continentals have a better approach, then I am sure they will be happy to receive you, just like the fed up French who now work and live in Britain are happily received here! The British, in the main, dislike Euro-meddling: Juncker has confessed this, so we know it's true! Though, I expect that after June 23rd, he will have forgotten about it: something to do with it becoming serious.

The above is all about old problems and I can see new challenges on the horizon, for us, and already present on the Continent.

Why board a sinking ship when we can sail our own course? There are over 150 countries doing business successfully, and they don't have to obey Brussels in their internal affairs.