I've never been naïve enough to claim that the consequences of large-scale immigration are all positive. My position however, is that Lying Don's rhetoric on Sweden is grossly exaggerated, agenda-driver and almost certainly an uncritical and unchecked relaying of a doctored and dishonest report he saw on Faux News.

Nothing in the NR piece contradicts that.

Phil, I am inclined to agree. But the NR piece does make the point that without meaningful statistics we simply don't know. Why won't the Swedish government release those statistics? If they would categorically prove the likes of Trump wrong, then my guess is that they would be released. The failure to release them does imply to my cynical mind that the statistics are not helpful to those who would seek to minimise the link between crime and immigration.

I did this last week for my own benefit...

[Google tip: any search put "site:{Country code top-level domain} on the end to restrict results to a country]

How Sweden became an example of how not to handle immigration Written by the Political Editor of one of the main Dailies on Sweden

Just googling around and reading articles for an hour, it is clear that Sweden has a coded language for dealing with immigration and refugees. There is certainly an elephant in the room. The Sweden Democrats (new populist party 1 in 7 support) are saying, "look an elephant...!!!". Swedish society appears to be narrow in its outward view - centre-left and careful in its appearance. There is a Swedish brand, yet when I have talked to Swedes in the past (before these issues) they admitted insecurities about their country, the dark side, the high suicides rates, the "on the surface liberal, yet hiding a conservative core"....

(Interestingly, Dutch society is similar, and Dutch society is experiencing similar populist attitudes)

Sweden will protect its brand.

Some other ad-hoc points...

Over 50% of the unemployed are immigrants.
When they admit child refugees they accept whatever age they are given without questioning.
Schools are not geared up for the disruption.
News reports of crime are stripped of any reference to ethnicity, yet just by the area and the disturbance it is clear who is causing the issues.

You recall we are always banging on about the perils of interpreting correlation for causation. I would be willing to wager that the more correct link between strife and immigration is really one between young, unemployed men and trouble. If we were able to see the data about indigenous unemployed Swedish yoof and crime there would probably be a similar strong link.

Mark Hodgson, from my limited experience of Sweden, which is probably more than some posting as experts .....

Britain claims the start of the Industrial revolution, but Sweden was not far behind, with plentiful natural resources.

There is great embarrassment about what was and was not done by Sweden during WW2. Sweden has done well with it's industrial economy, combined with Centre/Centre Left Politics. Sweden is very nervous about anything or anyone being seen as connected with the Far Right, it is a throwback to the angst that developed post WW2.

Some Swedes had also fought against the Soviets at the start of the war, whilst others fought with the Soviets against their own, towards the end of the war. The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo trilogy taps into some uncomfortable Swedish history, all blamed on those now 80+ or deceased.

The last thing Sweden needed, was to be mentioned by Trump, and Sweden will be keen to distance themselves from anything said by Trump! Trump DOES not fit with the Swedish agenda.

I wonder if any Progressives would like to explain why Sweden did not adopt the Euro, as they are held out to be a model of Progressive society?

Supertroll - you may be right. So why don't the authorities publish the statistics that would let us know, one way or the other?

golf charlie - thanks for the info, in your last post in others. One thing about visiting Bishop Hill, I'm always learning.

Mark. I would think it highly unusual if data relating crime to the age of the perpetrators in Sweden has not been published.

You recall we are always banging on about the perils of interpreting correlation for causation. I would be willing to wager that the more correct link between strife and immigration is really one between young, unemployed men and trouble.

But where is the spike in crime stats to correlate with?

Feb 27, 2017 at 3:38 PM | Phil Clarke

Why should anyone trust Lying Phil Clarke or Lying Climate Scientists?

I wonder if Trump will remember Climate Scientists and their advocates calling him a liar as he signs the budgets for Climate Science and the UN's IPCC for next financial year?

What have Climate Scientists ever done for the USA? Obviously they did much to get Trump elected, so maybe he will only approve 97% of budget cuts, as a gesture of good will, with special priority reserved for the Hockey Teamsters.

kim

You might be interested to know that Philip of Spain (he who married Mary, daughter of Henry VIII) actually had a tenuous claim of sorts himself to the English throne, through his ancestry, rather than just via his marriage to Queen Mary.

Edward III's son, John of Gaunt, via his first marriage to Blanche of Lancaster, had a daughter Phillipa, who married King John I of Portugal. Their son, Infante John, Constable of Portugal, married Isabella of Barcelos, and their daughter Beatrice, married Infante Ferdinand, Duke of Viseu.

Their son, Manuel I of Portugal, by his second wife, Maria of Aragon, had a daughter Isabella, who married the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, and their son was Philip of Spain.

I've rather lost track, but I think that makes Philip's 4 x great grandfather King Edward III of England. I've seen it argued in a book on the Wars of the Roses, that in some ways the Spanish Armada was the last battle of the Wars of the Roses, and the argument turned on its head the view that the Tudor regime was the successor to the Lancastrians, but rather that Henry VIII's claim to the throne was really via his mother, Elizabeth of York. Philip, as has been demonstrated above, was descended from the Lancastrian side of the Royal family.

Mark Hodgson & kim, thank you, BH is very informative!

To further complicate the English Monarchy, Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII. His older brother Prince Arthur was destined to be King, but he died, and Henry did the dutiful thing, and married his widow, Catherine of Aragon, to ensure some peace, unity and stability in Catholic Europe.

This did not quite work out as planned.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-economics/21709511-too-few-refugees-not-too-many-are-working-europe-refugees-sweden-are

If you are able to follow the link, data shows that the difference between employment rates for immigrants and natives is highest in places such as Sweden and Netherlands. In the US employment rates are higher for immigrants. I have experienced the racial tensions in Amsterdam. I would be surprised if things were much different in Sweden.

Feb 28, 2017 at 11:30 AM | Diogenes

The Dutch and Swedish speak better English than many people born and brought up in England, probably because their own languages are not easy for other Europeans to grasp.

I wonder whether some immigrants struggle with learning 2 languages, ie Swedish or Dutch AND English.

Many Swedes and Dutch are bilingual, speaking English, AND have at least one other language.

Meanwhile, back at the Thread ....

Trump seems to have all the evidence he needs to axe US Climate Science funding.

What we don't know, is if US Law Enforcement agencies are looking at evidence to bring Criminal Prosecutions, and whether their investigations may bring them to the UK/EU side of the Atlantic.

Nobody has yet done research about Prisons, with their high walls and tarmac exercise yards, and whether they create their own micro-climates, or Urban Heat Island effect.

Here's Douglas Murray:

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9988/sweden-trump

Phil and Alan, don't bother. He agrees with the rest of us.
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Hey Alan, go watch Trump's speech to Congress. You'll see a different Trump than the one you've described seeing before.
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Hmmmm, that's way more peremptory than I mean. 'Please go look' and 'I think you'll see'.

Much better.
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Kim. A good speech. His speechwriters should be congratulated. I acknowledge that Trump would have had the main input and approved the final version. I wonder why the enormous difference with his almost apocalyptic inaugural speech.

Sorry to harp on about biased BBC news reporting, but it's relevant this morning to the Trump thread. The headline on its website news page regarding his speech to Congress is this:

"Trump touts 'renewal of American spirit'". I may be paranoid about the BBC (yes, I concede it) but why use the word "touts"? It's a very strange word in this context and to me has negative connotations (e.g. ticket touts). The BBC manage to use less negative language if you get beyond the headlines and click on the story itself, when the story's headline transforms into the much more balanced and factual "Trump speech to Congress promises 'renewal of American spirit'".

Reading the story itself the negatives continue. There's this:

"His popularity, however, has hit a historic low for modern presidents after a month in office - just 44% of Americans think he is doing a good job, according to RealClearPolitics." I don't know why they select one opinion poll from one web-site, but I would make 2 comments about that:

1. The same website shows Congressional job approval at 21.9%, almost exactly half that of the 43.6% (the BBC did have the grace to round 43.6% up to 44%) for Trump. That simple additional statistic would put Trump's job approval rating into some sort of context, but the BBC didn't offer it.

2. Given that Trump was elected by 48% of those US electors who voted and that turnout in the Presidential election was somewhere between 50% and 60% (depending on who you listen to), that suggests to me that he was probably supported by 25-30% of the electorate in the election. Given that, and the hugely negative MSM assault on him since his election, 44% job approval sounds pretty good to me at this stage, but the BBC describe it as "JUST 44%".

I would stress again that I am in the 56% who wouldn't approve his job to date, but I really would like to see less partial reporting from our national broadcaster.

Thank you Alan; you're a good man.
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You too, Mark.
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Gosh kim, I try so very hard not to be and live up to my nom-de-blog. Failure yet again.