Discussion > President Trump
The proverbial book will hopefully be thrown at the gun toters - simply no excuse there. - but hey... I don't think anybody can reasonably claim that MAGA have a monopoly of armed loonies.
I wonder where the were 13 arrested - all in connection with 5 firearms? - on site or on their way in ?? AP haven't elaborated. 13 arrests overall ? - that seems remarkably low for an angry crowd that size.
Watch Barnes ...
Live by the tweet, die by the tweet.
Twitter is a private company and has a perfect right to enforce its Terms of Service. In fact Trump has enjoyed a privileged status on the platform; as a 'newsworthy individual' tweets from him that would be removed or result in a ban for ordinary users have just been flagged as 'disputed'. He will lose that privilege in a fortnight.
To be clear, the election was not stolen, it was not fraudulent, there is precisely zero evidence of widespread abuse and he did not achieve a landslide victory. Twitter has standards that ban the spreading of lies that might influence elections or other civic events. He will get his account back if and when he removes the three tweets that violate their policies. Seems fair to me.
We should seriously consider that Trump is a closet Democrat. Look what he’s done for them: Lost the presidency and control of the House and the Senate on his watch. What more could he do? Ah yes, expose the anti-democratic character of some of the extremist Republicans that support him. Over to you Biden, see if you can improve on that. I expect you will.
Surely Trump's undermining of the constitution and his incitement to riot are impeachment-worthy? It's just a pity that it's too late. Is the man actually mad?
Surely Trump's undermining of the constitution and his incitement to riot are impeachment-worthy? It's just a pity that it's too late. Is the man actually mad?
Articles of Impeachment are being prepared now. Amendment 25 would be quicker but would require Pence to grow a spine.
Team Trump has brought over 50 court cases alleging electoral malfeasance, the vast majority were laughed out of court or summarily dismissed for lack of evidence. The Departments of Homeland Security and Justice have declared the election free of significant fraud. Which brings the question: does he actually believe his own BS? Is he really surrounded only by people who feed his delusions with conspiracy theories (Yes, all the Judges are in on the steal) and prevent even a sliver of the truth from reaching him? Or is he just prolonging the fantasy of a stolen election as long as he can to keep the Super PAC donations rolling in and set the stage for a 2024 presidential bid?
I genuinely can't tell.What we do now know is that the rhetoric can have dangerous real world consequences.
Trump has scuppered any chance he had of running again although I think he senses that he'd not be offered the chance to represent the Republicans anyway. He's damaged the party in both houses. He's even damaged the concept of the right to bear arms, since idiots and nutters can buy them and threaten democracy, not defend it as they claim. He managed to ruin his own high chances since March because he could neither talk sense about the pandemic nor keep his mouth shut.
I'd like to think that people would stop comparing Boris with Trump and Brexiteers/Tories with Trump followers. I'd also hope that climate sceptics would steer clear of pretending that covid is not a serious problem and supporting loonies like Piers Corbyn who do.
We will label or remove false or misleading information intended to undermine public confidence in an election or other civic process. This includes but is not limited to:• disputed claims that could undermine faith in the process itself, such as unverified information about election rigging, ballot tampering, vote tallying, or certification of election results; and
• misleading claims about the results or outcome of a civic process which calls for or could lead to interference with the implementation of the results of the process, e.g. claiming victory before election results have been certified, inciting unlawful conduct to prevent the procedural or practical implementation of election results (note that our violent threats policy may also be relevant for threats not covered by this policy).
https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/election-integrity-policy
The only surprising thing is that it took a riot for Twitter to start enforcing its own rules ….
Contee said the other three deaths, which included one female and two males, involved "separate medical emergencies, which resulted in their deaths." He did not provide any causes of death, saying the determinations will rely upon an examination from D.C.'s chief medical officer.
okay....
As for Twitter - well gosh .... they've been enforcing those rules for the last 4 years huh? gtfoh
If breaking windows justifies summary capital punishment, Antifa and BLM better beware.(The "it's ok when people I agree with do it" defense - sortof)
TDS is the other side of QAnon - there are nutters of both stripes.
50 + arrests - what I'm left wondering is why *everybody* in the Capitol wasn't arrested? - seriously
So - Washington heading back to business as usual.
As for Trump's antics - it was a colossal misjudgement to get entangled with ambulance chaser Lin Wood.
As far as undermining the Constitution is concerned and "real world consequences" - I have the queasy feeling you ain't seen nothing yet - and I don't mean what MAGA crew might do - the US is headed into a one party state - the clamouring from the left to persecute the opposition has already started.
And finally - as for Boris one has to figure that beyond saving his own skin and getting his oats - he'd be out of his depth on a slightly dewy lawn.
It is truly amazing how some can ignore breaches of political protocol that have already occurred under Trump’s watch and guidance (to which incitement must be added) while predicting and chastising Biden and the Democrats’ actions that have yet to occur. The bias goes on and on.
I've seen reports that there were no Antifa about because they were all tied up on imaginary voice calls with imaginary voting machine executives. LOL.
Catalans ... they got cheered on eh?
That 5th Amendment seems likely to get a thorough workout under Biden (going by previous - which is all there is eh?)
Why didn't DC police arrest everybody at the Capitol and why weren't they better prepared? - that categorically isn't in Trump's control - that's Muriel Bowser - Washington Mayor. I mean why were the entrances protected with this sort of fencing which has been growing algae in yards across America for nearly a year...
AK - that is "it's ok when people I agree with do it" then?
And sadly, the imaginary Antifa bus fleet was in for a respray so they couldn't get to the gig. LOL x 2.
I mean why were the entrances not protected with this sort of fencing which has been growing algae in yards across America for nearly a year... It literally takes 5 minutes to erect on site and is durable and highly effective - and presently is nearly as cheap as the floppy guide barriers seen on most of the smartphone video seen being thrown aside in DC.
Ah, don't address the subject then Clarky ....
As the chaos unfolded, doubts were raised about whether Trump would order the DC National Guard to respond due to the slowness of the response. Public statements by acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller and other top officials suggested it was Pence who ultimately approved the decision. Miller's statement Wednesday seems to indicate he did not even speak with Trump, discussing the matter with his deputy instead as sources told CNN the President was reluctant to even denounce the violence being carried out in his name.
Swerve away chum
The National Guard are there as a contingency for when local assets are overwhelmed - no? If the event had been properly managed in the first place (maybe it was?) - the invasion simply wouldn't have happened.
DC has had what 4 weeks is it? to prepare for hundreds of thousands of disgruntled people to travel to Washington and all they can do is put out low standalone pedestrian guide barriers and and a sprinkling of cops?
That the crowd provisions were inadequate and situation got out of control reflect on the judgement of the responsible authorities - the DC Mayor is notionally in charge of the local cops and not known as a Trump fan and Congress has it's own notionally independent police force - they clearly failed - even Democrats are squealing about that.
This subject?
The Black Lives Matter demonstrators crowd outside the White House on 1 June was a block away from the building and made no attempt to breach its security. It was a mostly Black crowd, and it was charged by a force made up of Washington police, US Park police, over 5,000 national guard troops and federal agencies like the bureau of prisons. An army helicopter swooped low over the heads of the protesters. Teargas, batons and horses were used to clear a block so that Donald Trump could stage a photo op outside a church across the road. A national guard commander later admitted there had been “excessive use of force”.The events in Lafayette Park in June 2020 represented a defining moment of the Trump presidency. So will 6 January 2021. The mob that stormed the seat of US democracy on Wednesday had openly talked about such a plan, were explicitly intent on overturning a fair election, and some had hinted they might be carrying guns. They were almost all white. Many were openly white supremacists, and yet the thin Capitol police collapsed in their path.
I saw people being questioned as they left, they unanimously believed Trump had won the election, that it was being stolen from 'them', that vandalism and trespass were now their patriotic duty. They believed this garbage because it is what Trump and his enablers in and out of Government have been repeating for months. Earlier that day Trump repeated the lies again, riled up the crowd, directing them to the Capitol to show strength, Guiliani spoke of 'trial by combat', Donald Junior spoke of the 'the red-blooded, patriotic Americans in the crowd” thanking them for “standing up to the bullshit".
But the real issue here was the flimsy barriers. Got that, thanks.
You got nothing - it was a failure of law enforcement - and Democrat leaning media know it and are squealing for heads to roll. Every entrance to the Capitol has a security gate.
FYI - if an event organiser with a crowd that size in the UK had only floppy pedestrian guide barriers as primary partitioning - they'd lose their licence.
Prohibited items at the US Capitol building
The difference in law enforcement at different gatherings is something that we are now rather familiar with in the UK
Pure diversionary victim-blaming. From that link:
President Trump deserves great criticism for his stoking of the angry belief that our democracy has been stolen. To those who support the president, Trump's words must have appeared to offer both a righteous cause of action and a legal authority for that action.
Clearly preparations were inadequate, and Capitol Police have some serious questions to answer, but you cannot seriously be arguing that this absolves the criminals who conducted this insurrection of their crimes, or Trump and Co of incitement. Trump in particular totally failed to show anything resembling leadership, waiting hours before intervening, even then saying of the violent mob 'we love you' and 'you're special'.
This is not OK.
Contrast with the response to the BLM protests is stark, and requires some explanation. One difference being that the inspirational leader of these thugs is currently in the White House. Jan 20th cannot come too soon.
The difference in law enforcement at different gatherings is something that we are now rather familiar with in the UK
QED?
I'd just go for the inept screw-up most times - but heck, they've had 4+ weeks to deal with an invasion of 100s of thousands of QAnon deranged gun 'totin insane people ...
The smartphone clips of the Capitol police outside look like out-takes from "Police Academy" training sequences.
And you are absolutely correct Clarky - some explanation is required.
That doesn't look like proportionate violence from here
The Capitol shooting - graphic
Looks like they were lucky that the bullet didn't take out a police officer on the other side of the door.
... tumbleweed
I raise you an "It's OK when we do it"
If I recall correctly carrying a firearm in DC today is a Federal felony ?
Oh Please. Your average MAGA Militia Moron claims to support Lawnorder but only as it applies to other people. So far, thirteen arrests and five guns seized.