Discussion > President Trump
Sorry, I stutter
Supertroll
Supertroll, but what if Trump has been correct about Fake News produced by, or on behalf of, Team Clinton?
golf charlie
http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/gop-classified-intelligence-fisa-memo/index.html
"The Nunes memo focuses on the FBI's use of the dossier on Trump and Russia compiled by ex-British intelligence agent Christopher Steele and paid for through Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee.
The document alleges that the FISA judge who signed off on surveillance warrants for members of Trump's team during the campaign was not given full information about the dossier that was used in at least one application, including that it was paid for by the Democratic sources, CNN reported Saturday.
CNN first reported last April that the dossier was used as part of the justification with the secret FISA court to monitor the communications of former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page.
While the FBI used information beyond the dossier to support the court application, the dossier was cited in footnotes to specific allegations, according to current and former US officials briefed on the matter. Steele was considered by the bureau to be a credible FBI source, so using the material was not out of line with FBI practice, according to the current and former officials."
golf charlie
Well I wasted a quarter of an hour of my life watching potential bilge before turning off the Joe DeGenova interview and another ten mins checking up on him. An extreme right-wing lawyer (hell! he's a Tea Partier) with experience as a political hack in Washington DC (the city not the federal government) and a history of producing anti-democrate, rabidly anti Clinton diatribes (I wasted a further ten minutes sampling some of those). All giving detailed scenarios, all lacking any semblance of confirmatory evidence, all hearsay and innuendo.
Don't get me wrong I'm prepared to believe anything bad about American politics (but on both sides). I lived close and personal to Nixon's Watergate and Clinton's impeachment - I believe anything's possible.
Joe DeGenova could be 100% correct for all I know, but I somehow doubt it. For me some of the interesting matters skipped over by your font of knowledge are 1. The fact that the former FBI director who today is the devil incarnate (even responsible for blackmailing POTUS according to Joe DeGenova) was a darling when investigating Cllinton but was fired when he turned onto Trump, and 2. If H Clinton's crimes were so blatent, why has it taken more than a year for her to be charged? Could it be that just perhaps she is not quiet so guilty? But I know nothing, nor do I profess to know, unlike some of my more knowledgeable bloggers. Time will tell.
Supertroll
If H Clinton's crimes were so blatent, why has it taken more than a year for her to be charged? Could it be that just perhaps she is not quiet so guilty? But I know nothing, nor do I profess to know, unlike some of my more knowledgeable bloggers. Time will tell.
Jan 22, 2018 at 3:28 PM | Supertroll
If you believe some of the bloggers, Trump should have been impeached last year. It is possible that Trump has displayed rather more dignity in the face of opposition lies, than others may have managed.
golf charlie
GolfCharlie. I don't believe any bloggers on any matter political. I watch, and sometimes comment when the I luv Trump/I hate Clinton bandwagon gets too overbearing. From the outset I have abhorred Trump, not because of his politics (all over the place) but because of his character (or rather a lack of it). I wrote when he first appeared that I wouldn't let him through my front door. I haven't changed my mind a smidgen and each of his lies and boasts confirms my initial judgment.
Supertroll
"Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”
He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”
This was said by Donald Trump on Fox News in 2013, during the Obama shutdown.
Funny how what goes around comes around.
Entropic man
Give him time EM to work his magic - his art of the deal. As I write the Senate will be voting. Will POTUS have convinced ten holdout democratic scum to conform. Somehow doubt it. The nuclear option might even backfire.
Supertroll
Even more to the point, will he persuade his holdout Republicans?
Entropic man
81-18 in favour of the appropriation bill.
It will be interesting to see the full voting record.
Entropic man
First estimate.
49 Republican scum for.
1 Republican scum against.
25 Democrat scum for.
17 Democrat scum against.
Entropic man
Supertroll
well done - that wasn't so bad was it? Not quite like being strapped in with eyelid camps a la Clockwork Orange.
I'm glad you chose to mostly play the ball and not the man - sure - DeGenova is partisan and has a reputation for repeatedly jumping the shark re: Clintons - but heck.... who'd you expect to challenge the present situation?.
Everybody sees what they want to see to a certain extent.
The only real novelty for me was the bit about Admiral Mike Rogers (Head of NSA) March 2016 finds Fusion GPS + Democrat associates have wholly unauthorised (as in illegal) access to government communications intercepts (public domain) and have specifically targeted the Trump campaign and a raft of associates and lied to the FISA court. The others involved try to get him dismissed - but Obamah bottles it - likely figuring that it'd attract more attention. Few in the Obamah administration are happy that Admiral Rogers takes a trip to New York to tell DJT that he's unequivocally being spied on by the Obamah crew....
There are simply so many people sucked into this business it has the potential to collapse under its own weight and complexity - maybe it's just the hurley-burly of 'Merkan politics.
Julian Assange has had his Twitter wings clipped
tomo
tomo, those are interesting links!
Some queries that occur to me - that I don't anticipate an answer to ...
What "level" of investigation is normally carried out into Presidential Candidates by US secret squirrels?
Someone had to have authorised the extra costs, or at least not queried them. Who else apart from the then President, could have done so?
Trump suggested that Clinton should be behind bars, not Obama.
Trump must have demanded answers from Day 1 in the Oval Office, presumably some wouldn't answer, and some couldn't answer because they didn't know. Some of the firings/resignations from Team Trump and the upper echelons of US Government will now be scrutinised
golf charlie
gc
sensibly any state intelligence outfit is going to vet an incoming POTUS - there must be protocols. Quite who gets to decide what's acceptable is an entirely different matter .... In the normal run of things one might expect a candidate to have been vetted several times as an elected representative at lower rungs - and in the case of the USA there is a panel of 8 politicians (4 Dem, 4 Rep) who have the highest security clearance who might be expected to review a vetting. Obviously DJT disrupted the process..... and it's one reason mebbe that spook antics were in part sanctioned.
If one looks for task authorisation - that's driven by the product distribution - which, in the matter to hand unequivocally includes The White House = do it first and book the time / costs - whatever they may be. Problems arise with the compartmentalisation necessary to quarantine intelligence matters and secure from compromising penetration - a system that was gamed by the assorted goons involved in this.
It certainly looks as if Trump is merely *reacting* and characteristically on the hoof..... occasionally acting on duff info - but rarely it would seem on unsupported presumption.
As far as resignations go - the one that looks mighty suspicious (but could also be entirely+completely legitimate + unconnected) is John Carlin - a man seriously on the fast track to highest office with an impressive cv - head of Mueller's office when Mueller was top dog. If you look at where Carlin was in the links between the various players he was in a position to see pretty much all that was going down (a foot in several compartments if you like). It's one loose end that any investigative journalist worth their salt would be onto like a flash....
The timing of Carlin's walk is odd - It may well be that he had pressing personal reasons.... He's disappeared from view.
tomo
U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General is investigating all this ... the last big case they had iirc was Robert Hansen
Snowdon's been pretty quiet
I think the spooks are spooked
... but not entirely - since the amended snooping law was renewed for another 6 years - by this administration :-)
tomo
tomo, more random thoughts and queries:
there must be a difference between vetting a Presidential Candidate and an Elected President, along with their teams at the time.
Was there something specific that they were looking for evidence of, or was it just a case of endless trawling in the hope of catching something? If the former, did they find it, and still carry on?
Did snooping finish when Trump entered the Oval Office, or had the previous administration been able to authorise continuation?
golf charlie
gc
candidate vs. incumbent?
The vetting will have been done - from there on in my understanding is that democratic oversight comes at least in part via the "gang of 8" and the party apparatus - clearly there have been actors in this who've survived the transition and are still in post, and acting against DJT out of direct animus or simply to protect themselves from the consequences of their prior antics or to keep their pet projects alive - Syria/Jordan being a case in point.
specifics?
The surveillance of the Trump campaign is it would seem a direct consequence of trying to protect HRC - and it got way, way out of hand with individual players political allegiances and prejudices getting indulged hugely. When no real evidence came from the "incidental"/"accidental" monitoring of the Trump campaign - somebody took the decision to manufacture evidence.
ongoing?
I think the perps are in damage limitation mode - the losing of Peter Strzok's text messages being a case in point - but a lot of people are undoubtedly feeling cornered.
In all it's a huge mess and still a dangerous situation - factions within The Praetorian Guard are not happy with this emperor. Who needs Game of Thrones and House of Cards?
The central Democrat faction and their allies have an awful lot to lose and they will fight as dirty as they've previously done - the Republicans look quite disorganised.... DJT is it seems keeping his powder dry.
As far as tinkering with US elections is concerned I'd bet that few involved looked at the master class that was the 1940 FDR re-election as a serious model to follow - Obamah's people should have gone for a real nonentity - big mistake.
.
tomo
tomo, Trump has kept quiet so far. I suppose he is trying to avoid making his revenge too personal. The longer this drags on, the more Government Employees are going to get smeared.
A few prominent arrests and some enthusiastic plea bargaining could produce a result to match FIFA's.
Then he can start on Climate Science corruption
golf charlie
Lawyering up Part 1 of a series...
How does Peter Strzok afford Harvey Weinstein’s lawyer David Boies - one of the most expensive in DC - on @FBI salary?
Poor old Mike Flynn was threatened with bankruptcy by Strzok's cronies / Mueller - for doing his job.
Boies is from same firm as Karen Dunn who was slated to become Hillary’s @WhiteHouse Counsel had she defeated DJT
Another ship jumper:
Comey’s FBI Chief of Staff James Rybicki Abruptly Quits FBI
Somebody's gonna sing like a canary as they used to say in the 1940s G-men movies
Movement in the background is it cover up or a clearout?
tomo
tomo, why would someone want Weinstein's Lawyer? What is his speciality, smearing and discrediting witnesses?
It is possible that the FBI are paying his Legal Fees if he was acting in accordance with his Employer's agreed duties, and his Employers want to protect themselves. It does seem premature for an innocent man to Lawyer Up with a man with such a very busy schedule.
golf charlie
gc
I'm waiting for Alan Derschovitz to wade in - he has made very disparaging remarks about much of this stuff now being revealed - that makes me think he might...
That would be hugely entertaining as (if you didn't know) he's an independent minded Democrat lawyer with a crowded trophy wall.
I'm seeing snippets that make me suspect that another lawyer - Trey Gowdy is positioning himself for a fight.
I would not be surprised to see shortages of popcorn in the USA - end of this week / beginning of next week
tomo
tomo, once .someone is arrested and charged, US Justice, Law Enforcement and Secret Squirrels are all going to get nervous about who to trust. Lawyers with expertise in doing deals will be in high demand.
Trump will want a few high profile scalps, but the Democrats will only want to surrender some low level scape goats.
Perhaps Local Plod will relish nicking some Feds.
golf charlie
gc
well... duh some prominent idiot Democrats are wheeling out 'doze 'wikkid 'wushins again.... except ... that according to Twitter #releasethememo (which Senator Feinstein and chums are saying is from "Russian bots") is pretty much all from domestic US users...
The Office of the Inspector General is in there and the very experienced prosecutor and cautious Trey Gowdy is obviously preparing - it certainly looks like momentum is building towards a denouement.
The perps are heading into squeaky-bum territory
It looks like DJT doesn't need to intervene yet
tomo
tomo, Trump does not want (to be seen ) to intervene, much as he would like to use a sledgehammer to crack their nuts. But he may have installed a popcorn maker in the Oval Office.
The "Blame the Russians" defence may get interesting, if it proves pointless trying to serve a subpoena in Russia, and a Judge then has to rule on whether evidence submitted in Court via US Secret Squirrels is reliable, especially if there is a pattern of evidence pointing at the Russians that can be traced back to Secret Squirrel sources.
Steele, the former UK Secret Squirrel, can not expect support from the UK, and will be an easy scape goat in a US Investigation and Court Room.
golf charlie
TDS ... try saying it quickly