Discussion > BBC prog pushing Electric Car Dream
Are EV car grants ending ? ..no
"Government grants for plug-in vehicles are to continue at the same rates until at least the end of April while ministers consider any potential changes.
The scheme is set to continue in some form until 2020, as was previously announced in November's Budget"
more
"you cyclists, are bloody disgrace ..you don't pay any road tax or fuel taxes ! Grrh"
... " Cyclists pay the same VED as a Nissan Leaf or Tesla 3; £0
Electric cars don't pay fuel tax, because they're electric"
Times Saturday : Lack of new charging points impacting EVs says HSBC report
Times Wednesday correction : We said only 173 charging points were installed in 2017
..but that was just directly by government
Other bodies installed another 1,500
Piaggio alternative to EV ..an autonomous drum that follows you walking and carries 44lb
..Duh how is that different to a granny's shopping cart ?
She has contol of it just with her hand
Of course Piaggios current design can't go up stairs either
On the positive side, something I would like to see more of is electrically-assisted bicycles. Haven't actually tried one yet, but I've heard good reports and no government has yet tried to bribe me into buying one. It's another hybrid where people like one aspect of it, but only some of the time.
Green-crazies are still obsessed with making people do what is demanded by green-crazies, not giving people something they actually like and want, which might also have 'beneficial' side-effects. I have now come to the conclusion that it is indeed a power trip for such people who aspire to rule other humans, but use "It's for the greater good" as their excuse.
And I want the BBC funding progressively reduced until they understand this. Whether Tesla has actually bribed BBC journalists to write puff-pieces for them, I don't know. But the love shown at the BBC seems a bit too much like politicians who have an 'understanding' with promoters of certain products and services later receiving financial recognition and consultancies. There are other electric car manufacturers than Tesla but you could be forgiven for not realizing it from BBC coverage. It is probably almost impossible to prove malfeasances, but contracts could be written more strictly to avoid such conflicts of interest.
ARE ELECTRIC CARS WORSE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT?
Date: 15/05/18 Jonathan Lesser, Politico
Crunch the numbers, and it looks like all those subsidies might be counterproductive.
Michael Hart
If you are interested in electric bicycles I suggest you try renting one for a day and take it to a really steep hill and see how it works.
I've had two which I've restored from being tinkered with (and failed poor quality electrics) - the batteries are usually inadequate and the legal 250W motors struggle will hills. The waterproofing of the electrics is universally woeful (it rains in the UK....) So riding on the flat, in the dry and storing in the dry will result in a passable user experience.
12:30pm BBC You and Yours pushing the Electric Taxi dream
Interesting how that London car item was changed.
The prog blurb was
And, car manufacturers are meeting at the Excel Centre for the London Motor Show - our reporter Clare Worden reports live - it's been a tough year for the sector, what do UK manufacturers think about Brexit?Yet the prog gave us the same reporter out for a spin with the Electric Taxi PR guys.
..Yes they covered both sides of the debate
... NOT ..they just had the electric Taxi promo guys ..
The taxi salesman said "Diesel is like a villain
..I see various councils will probably ban diesels that's the way it's going"
I double checked that Taxi item
"Of course you need to pay extra for a *range extender* "
Hangon "range extender" what's that ?
Internet says " range extender 1.5-liter petrol engine for use when the driver wants to conserve the battery "
...blah blah 'but your'e saving money on running costs"
Jesus that's a con that he never mentioned its got a petrol engine ..
The costs of running an electric taxi ..include BUYING PETROL for it !
Thanks for the advice, tomo. Unfortunately I've just fractured a clavicle crashing one of the traditional types, so I'm not going to be riding anything for a while.
May 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM | michael hart
Sorry to hear about your injury. If handlebars are a problem, is it time to try a unicycle? Battery powered obviously....
Ugh I just forced myself to listen to the BBC WS prog about Electric cars ... I knew it would be total propaganda, cos on green issues you cannot see where the PR departments of the NGOs end
and the BBC production step starts
.... as they are basically the same things.
You don't expect any balance or sceptical thinking .
#1 The prog used a BBC standard deceptive framing trick to startoff
which comes is the product of a chain of Chinese whispers. I've even mentioned this PR trick in January
– Typically each prog begins by falsely portraying Norway as loaded with electric cars.and an EV PR person reported the claim later on.
The truth pure electric sales seem to be static to falling as it’s actually hybrids that have overtaken then.
Even then 95% of Norwegian cars seen conventional petrol/diesel cos people don’t keep buying new cars but rather run old ones for 18 years .
My notes : http://bishophill.squarespace.com/discussion/post/2699478
#2 Deep into the programme he said "Electric car enthusiasts like me "
Look you can't just give NEWS progs to enthusiasts to make, there should be some balance.
- I listened as I cycled into town. It was excruciating and I was glad it ended as it was PR line after PR line.
Near the end they start talking about Hydrogen cars , and played a PR clip of Governor Arnie Schwarzenegger promising lots of new hydrogen fuel points ..he never delivered.
- It's significant that only 3 people tweeted the link to that prog. That tells me that the listeners weren't particularly interested.
BBC World Service : BBC World Service
CrowdScience How Green Are Electric Vehicles?
Does the prog tweet promotion graphic fit the question ?
(Road sign with 'diesel' crossed out and the a big arrow places under 'electric' )
Nope it's the graphic of someone who has a different agenda that Diesel is evil and Electric is the way to go.
They gave Norway as the example as the place of Electric Vehicles
when in fact DIESEL sales INCREASED 5% last year. Diesel new sales are already 3 times bigger than petrol sales.
And pure Electric sales fell as new buyers chose HYBRID.
Nor do they mention that overall fuel consumption rises year on year.
Nov 2017 vs Nov 2016
Petrol higher 89 vs 83 +7.2 .... Diesel fell 253 vs 259 -6
and now advertising electric motorbikes too.
It's been a while since motorbikes were a "cheap" form of transport but The Beeb Actally screens an advert ...."
The Pikes Peak motorbike record is a genuine achievement the zeroTT machines are impressive and bmw's electric offering is expensive but really neat - The Zero Machine.... £7000 for 15hp / 90 miles - I bet I could halve that range :-)
But if one is seeking nauseatingly hypocritical dishonest PR tosh then this takes some beating when you consider that Formula E is followed around by a fleet of diesel generators.
Buckle-up, here we go. "Tesla to slash thousands of jobs in profitability drive"
In a perverse way, it makes sense. Even with green investors (very green), government backing, liberal amortisation, and free advertising by the BBC, Tesla loses money on every car it produces. So as it stands, if they actually make more cars to fulfil their order books, they will likely lose even more money.
They were never going to build an efficient car-manufacturing machine that could compete with the Toyota's, or even lesser companies of this world, overnight. This is an admission they have given up.
The shares actually bounced up significantly after Musk's quarterly gung-ho speech a few days ago. He also flat out admitted that his production forecasts were always optimistic because 'he is that kind of guy'. It was funny reading some websites discussing how all the short-sellers had thus clearly received a bloody nose, seemingly more interested in politics than investing and share prices. Maybe it was just market relief that he is actually going to start telling it as it really is. Who knows? We will likely never know, because I don't recall anyone ever conducting a poll asking investors why they really bought or sold when they did. But it is one thing for the band to play on as The Titanic slips beneath the waves, and quite another to be buying tickets for the next instalment of Strictly Ballroom at the same time. Lol.
Tesla on fire:UK director Michael Morris' car bursts into flames.
Ouch, that's gonna sting. But credit to the BBC for reporting it.
12:35pm R4 Jon Lawrenson on Y&Y plugging Dutch milk-float supermarket
They have no stores, instead they have a round that comes down you street everyday.
#1 old style
#2 It's old news Picnic NL has been in the news in 205, 2017 etc
#3 They argue they waste less no zig zag routes
... Doh the journo never pointed out the waste of having the guy come up your drive 5 times per week instead of 1
I worked at the Pontardawe Festival 15 years ago with one of these new milk floats, which were supposed to be the next big thing.
pic
EVs in many (near all?) cases are a fashion statement / virtue signalling device for correct thinking well heeled folk.
I wonder that the assorted supermarket local delivery services have not embraced gas powered vehicles with their combination of relative CO2 piety and low fuel cost.
John Lewis / Waitrose are poised to run a large part of their shop distribution fleet on gas - why not the "final mile"?
Tesla time at the BBC: Regulators accuse Tesla's Elon Musk of securities fraud
Analysis - Dave Lee, BBC North America technology reporter, San Francisco:Whatever the state of mind Elon Musk was in when he announced he had "funding secured", it could end up costing almost everything he holds dear. It would be nobody's fault but his own.
Wall Street veterans - and indeed, anyone with a modicum of knowledge of how the financial markets work - predicted this very scenario the moment those tweets were posted.
Mr Musk is famously an unconventional chief executive, but when it comes to the financial markets, you can't flout the rules without serious consequences.
Yes, almost an outbreak of reality at the BBC. But I can't recall the BBC acting as if they were "anyone with a modicum of knowledge of how the financial markets work" previously.
It's probably more than the end of the beginning for Tesla, and closer to the beginning of the end. We can still expect it to get blamed on Musk himself, rather than deluded supporters like the BBC offering the company so much free advertising bordering on propaganda.
michael hart
A "Me Too" campaign has been successful in Hollywood and the media in bringing witnesses forward, cases to Court, and now Convictions, concerning sexually predatory males.
The BBC has been subjected to a similar campaign involving sex discrimination over salaries and status.
If any BBC presenters would like to start a private or public debate along similar lines, concerning discrimination against those compelled to present the minority interests of a powerful few within the BBC, about Climate Science, Global Warming and whether anybody should take any action, Musk would be a good introductory topic for conversation.
Have the BBC been complicit in promoting Musk's greed and ego, to the detriment of BBC Licence payers? Where are the internal memos and warnings about similar "South Sea Bubbles" and "Tulip Fever", and have the BBC been involved in blatant advertising, marketing and pyramid selling or just deceitful practices?
What do BBC presenters REALLY think? Or are they not allowed to say?
VW, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche stop plug-in hybrid sales
due apparently to new emissions rules that are aimed at the sort of Volvo gamesmanship we've seen with simply dishonest MPG figures for hybrids.
SEC vs. Musk
tomo, it is almost as if Musk keyed the original Tweet as a silly fantasist joke and then accidentally sent it.
I wonder if in reality, he can remember why he did it.
Tesla depreciation rates will have accelerated. 60-0 thousand dollars in under 3 years now seems achievable
seen on nalopkt
“My Local Tesco filling station has 12 pumps. If it takes 5 minutes to fill and pay (slow because they are all pay at pump) then to provide the same through put for 40 minute charges as the petrol pumps there would need to be 96 charging stations.”
We would also need parking for 96 cars for every 12 pump gas station. As the current travel distance is 160 miles we’d need these every 150 miles or so to be on the safe side. That’s alot of concrete or asphalt. Not a fan of greenery are we, mf?
But what are the occupants of those 96 EVs going to do during their 40min-14 hour waits?"
I said before that BBC EV PR men were misrepresenting Norway, where in fact pure-EV sales fell as people opt for hybrid.
Times : only 1,000 EVs sold in 2018 so far in UKsales could fall next month when £4,500 subsidy ends.
"The number of electric cars sold in Britain has fallen by a third since the start of the year, amid concerns that motorists are being put off by high price "
Overall including hybrids the category is up 19%
Same schedule as smart meter program ?