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Discussion > BBC prog pushing Electric Car Dream

Local news being used to push Guardianlalaland agendas
6:10 ITV LOCAL news had a long item on ELECTRIC CARS and how lovely they are
No real local angle, it looks like a national item syndicated into my area news.

The journo's promo tweet
ITV also did a number of build up tweets with the 36,000 deaths claim
.. which is #FakeNews

=====================
item began "families say they they being priced out of Britain's electric car revolution"
Yeh when I was hitching around me ..that is what every driver said to me .... NOT cos ..that phrase is Public Relations speak; it's not what real people say.
The item had no news value ..it was a PR sham to push Electric Cars

No one complains they don't have enough money to buy an electric car
Few people buy new cars. People of limited means look to buy a secondhand car; they do not effing moan that they can't afford this special type of NEW car.
Thus a poor hippy might look at a second hand electric car.
It would still be poor value cos the battery would need replacing in a few years
And by then new tech would have come in.

Sep 17, 2019 at 11:49 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Transcript
Male Presenter : "families say they are being priced out of Britain's electric car revolution
as the government confirms that it is cutting the grant, which is meant to encourage people to buy the vehicle"

Female Presenter : "The move to electric cars is intended to help Britain cut down on its air pollution
..but just how affordable is this change in direction ?

(strange question cos THE PUBLIC PAY FOR THE SUBSIDY so cutting it makes us richer)
.. "but in the first of a series of special reports this week Nitya Rajan @NityaGRajan has been looking at the costs involved in our electric future"
NR "Britain's dirty air is deadly !
contributing to around 36,000 deaths every year"

(FakeNews, that is PR speak, cos no one dies of air pollution
rather it is argued that it makes everyone's lives a few days shorter)
"To tackle this Sheffield will aim to introduce a CleanAir Zone in 2021"
(The M1 passes close by the middle of Sheffield by the Meadowhall Shopping Centre, I'm guessing there will be no special controls on it)
"And the schemes to improve air quality here tie-in closely to this plan straight from the mouth of Number Ten (Boris Clip)
.. but this vision has left some feeling like they have lost out on Britain's electric car revolution
.. The Gillespie family want to do the right thing, but the cost of the cars has left them with an UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH"
Craig Gillespie "It seems a slap in face that you want to do good for the environment, that you want to you know play your part
..and you are having to pay fifty percent over the people who aren't that bothered."

"This electric car test centre is the first of its kind in Europe
It was set up as part of a £9m grant from the government to encourage more people to buy low emission vehicles
.. but a quick look around the centre and it's clear ro see that the advertisements are missing ONE CRUCIAL FACT : The full price of buying an electric car"

Centre Manager : Ted Foster of "The environmental concern is there, but generally cost is the key concern for people are wondering in here
and I think if we can demonstrate that it only costs £5 to fill up your car then people start to pick up and take notice at that point "

NR " A Tesla Model S that has one of the longest ranges could set you back £66K
.. The Nissan Leaf is the best selling E C of all time and costs around £26K .. that compared to a petrol or diesel Ford Focus car which starts at around £18,500"

(Anyone think those numbers are suspicious ??
IMHO they are doing the fallacy of comparing apples with oranges
For a start £18.5K is the magazine price ..You could get £16K
but really I don't think a basic family would look at a New Ford Focus as they could buy another brand for £11K
or more likely a secondhand low mileage for £6-8K
So until they can buy a similar second hand EV for that price , it's not the same market)

"The gov has set a target to halt the sale of all petrol diesel cars by 2040
but its grant for those wishing to buy EV has been steadily decreasing .. now standing at £3,500
.. but its a sum that the gov tells me is only set to get smaller "

To Grant Shapps "Some would say that you need to be incentivising people more if you want to meet that 2040 target"
Paraphrasing : Grant Shapps 'What gov aim to do very sensisbly is start to kickstart the market, we can't keep the grant forever. Over time it has to go down'
NR : 'but I spoke to Craig and Vicky who are struggling to buy an electric car'
GS ..'look at the total cost of owning and running that car'
NR : "that'so more pay they now"

NR "To this family crunching the numbers the govs vision is still a long way from reality"
NR to child "Milo what do you think of Electric cars ?"
Coached child "They are relly good, and they are super quiet, and they are like needed"
.. NR "It's clear to see that EC have been discussed in this house for some time , but for now that is all the cars will be a topic of conversation ...NR ITV News"

Sep 18, 2019 at 12:09 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

PS from Twitter I can see that Grant Shapps has been out and about today promoting thr EV dream.

Sep 18, 2019 at 12:14 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

stewgreen

I'm seeing stuff about Leaf battery failures and poor engineering decisions.... The Leaf battery electrolyte is degrading far, far faster than anticipated when it's actually used - and obviously - they're trying to PR it away..... The telltale is that s/h Leaf packs are appearing where sellers aren't warrantying the capacity and some are volunteering less than 50% capacity - but "good for DIY Powerwalls" .....

I spend a fair time online in the EV world and my suspicion is that it's a major league embarrassment that's sucking hundreds of thousands of ££££ in reputation management antics - it's like nobody wants to talk about it.

I'm getting the feeling that the likely extents of the failures would damage the overall EV market. I'm also seeing commercial EVs with goosed battery packs.

Sep 18, 2019 at 12:40 AM | Registered Commentertomo

@Tomo \\ The Nissan Leaf batteries have no internal thermal management which is why they perform poorly in warmer environments.//

Sep 18, 2019 at 1:13 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

That Guardian story by Jasper Jolly
The subsidies overwhelmingly go towards cars with petrol and diesel engines.
The study found that 96% of new company cars contain internal combustion engines that emit carbon dioxide, as well as other harmful pollutants such as nitrogen oxides.

Tosh of course but they don't allow open comments
That story has been tweeted by all the regular NGOs like ECIU etc.
There is no discussion under any of the tweets.

BTW 100% of vehicles emit harmful pollutants via tyre dust etc.

Oct 5, 2020 at 8:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Mark adds

Two observations:

1. This is again a misuse of the English language. A lower rate of tax or a tax allowance is not a subsidy.

2. The German government, on this (flawed) analysis, is offering massive subsidies to its car manufacturers. What happened to the the fuss in EU/UK trade negotiations post-Brexit, about a level playing field. Just as some are m

Oct 5, 2020 at 8:38 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

MikeHig said

Idau: "I thought pushing or towing battery cars is nigh on impossible. Crane lift only."

It depends on the car and its transmission configuration, aiui. Some Tesla variants can be put into "neutral" and towed. EVs with front wheel drive can be towed with an axle trolley. 4WD versions have to be winched onto a flatbed or lifted.

It's only fair to mention that this is very like automatic ICE cars. Some can be towed but all 4 WD variants have to be carried: medium and large SUVs as well as upmarket saloons. So the recovery services have had plenty of practise, esp with JLR products!

Oct 5, 2020 at 8:43 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Just to keep a note of Electric Vehicle fires

#1 Bus depot fire in China

#2 Bus depot fire in Germany

#3 "Two Swiss Post electric cars burned out completely on Tuesday. Letters and parcels also went up in flames."
“Letters and parcels also went up in flames. But the work is far from over with the extinguishing work on the e-vehicles,” writes the BZ. “Due to the long-lasting chemical reactions set in motion by the fire inside the vehicles’ rechargeable batteries, they have to be flooded in special containers to cool them down for 24 hours.”

https://www.badische-zeitung.de/zwei-elektroautos-der-post-gehen-in-staufen-in-flammen-auf

#4 Various older reports of problems with POTENTIAL fires in Germany Post Office vans
Jul 13, 2020 Deutsche Post recalling 12,000 StreetScooters due to fire concerns,
Most of the vehicles (about 10,000) are owned by Deutsche Post.
At the beginning of 2020, Deutsche Post announced that it would soon discontinue production of the electric van .

https://www.come-on.de/verbraucher/streetscooter-elektrotransporter-rueckruf-deutsche-post-brandgefahr-werkstatt-zr-13830964.html

Jun 27, 2021 at 1:43 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Apologies, #3 is Germany, it's just in Google Translate it comes out as "Swiss Post"

Jun 27, 2021 at 3:22 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I feel that the battery fires are going to be small potato compared to the hydrogen leaks at filling stations -> the first 10,000psi hydrogen bottle failure - that's going to spread debris a fair distance.

Jun 28, 2021 at 3:20 PM | Registered Commentertomo