Discussion > BBC prog pushing Electric Car Dream
x-posted from unthreaded
Some at the BBC are obviously on an anti car / anti IC engine roll it would seem :
Why you have (probably) already bought your last car By Justin ("Ethical Man") Rowlatt
Seagues seamlessly with the World Service piece at the weekend - looks like Mrs Rowlatt (AKA "Ethical Wife") is in the mix....
He makes bicycling around Delhi sound like a leisurely pedal in a London park.
tomo
What do you do if one group ofcMPs won't simply regurgitate your EV PR ?
Move on and find a different committee that does.
Hence today's news
"MPs call for earlier ban on polluting vehicles"
is actually the parliamentary business committee.
YP has long quotes from Racael Reeves.
..but the unusually adds a small box from an opposing voice.
..John Procter saying the technology is not ready.
stewgreen
Yorkshire Post then take the bait and do a leader on the topic.
"Turbocharging Electric Cars
..unless ministers retain a range of incentives to encourage EVs ... then the revolution will be stuck in the slow lane"
Doh if they are revolutionary, then why do they need huge subsidies ?
stewgreen
The BBC enthusiasm continues - I was going to say unabated, but read the detail in this article, and perhaps the penny is beginning to drop that this madness just won't work:
"Diesel and petrol ban should come much faster, say MPs"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45899580
This part of Theo Leggett's analysis suggests that reality may be dawning:
"Nevertheless, it's a fact that electric cars currently make up 0.6% of all cars sold in the UK, and plug-in hybrids just 1.6%. Overall, they make up a tiny proportion of the 31.5 million registered cars on our roads.
Yes, sales are expected to grow rapidly over the next few years, and yes some countries are planning to move more quickly. But with so many unknown factors ahead - such as whether or not enough batteries can be made to support rapid growth of electric vehicles - you could argue that it's already a pretty challenging target."
But the propaganda does continue, including the use of inaccurate and inappropriately emotive language:
"In addition, it called plans announced last week to slash subsidies for less-polluting vehicles "perverse". The government will end grants for new plug-in hybrids in November and the subsidy for cars that are purely electric is being reduced from £4,500 to £3,500."
So, cutting generous taxpayer-funded grants (enjoyed almost exclusively by rich people, but paid for by all taxpayers, rich and poor alike) by around 22% is "slashing" subsidies, apparently.
"The purchase costs of electric vehicles remain very high relative to internal combustion engine vehicles, the report said, and therefore "incentives are required to encourage motorists to make the switch"."
Understatement of the year, I think.
More propaganda:
"But Mike Hawes, head of the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders (SMMT), said calls to shift to entirely electric-powered cars by 2032 were "unrealistic".
"Zero emission vehicles make up just 0.6% of the market, meaning consumer appetite would have to grow by some 17,000% in just over a decade," he said."
On what basis is an electric car zero-emission, exactly? No CO2 or other GHGs emitted in its manufacture? In its transport to the dealer's forecast and its sale to the end-user? No CO2 or other GHGs involved anywhere in the process of producing and transmitting the electricity on which it runs? In the manufacture (and ultimate disposal) of the battery/batteries on which it relies?
When, oh when, can we expect an honest and grown-up debate?
Forager
@Forager we deal in the real world
MetroLibs deal with PR world
..hence all their PR words
like "zero emission"
stewgreen
@Pcar says there is a good debunk of that BBC Tosh
http://www.desertsun.co.uk/blog/8412/
\\ (The expert) said pretty much the same as I have (1, 2) in that the battery technology is nowhere near mature enough to make the switch now, and probably won’t be for at least 20 years.
He compared the power to weight ratio of Tesla’s batteries with the internal combustion engine in his company’s vehicles, as well as their respective useful lives.
He thought there will be some improvements with a move to solid-state batteries, but without some sort of hydrogen cell electric cars aren’t going to replace petrol and diesel.
He also spoke about the environmental effects of making, recycling, and disposing of batteries for the 100 million cars which are produced every year, including the mining of lithium. //
Never mind this extra copper we'll be digging up for charger stations etc.
stewgreen
just a random bit of EV zealotry on Twitter
No incumbent manufacturer will survive until they declare top to bottom that they are an Electric First car company, and wind down their engine building operation. No new transmissions, no new turbos, no new variable valve technology, no hybrids. 100% electric every model or die.
It's the sort of thinking the BBC endorses but won't headline.....
tomo
Channel 9 in 'Straylia
Have an airhead announcer who seems to think(?) EVs are "fuel free" - it seems likely she also believes in Santa Claus and The Tooth Fairy.
tomo
Ah after 36 seconds she says "Now's the time to go fuel free"
.. she means having a vehicle which doesn't take physical fuel like petrol/diesel
Doh of cause FUEL is used at the power station to make the electricity
Very little of the electricity will actually come from solar/wind
But I have never seen a news report which is so like advert
In the last seconds you can see her being handed a large brown envelope
She's also 8ft tall ..cos she stands close to the camera
stewgreen
The PR people try to use the phrase "fossil-fuel free"
.. but everything actually has a fossil fuel component in it.
stewgreen
Tesla I think.... should be worried
Will the BBC cozy up to the Beelzebub that is VW ?
tomo
The whole point of a campervan is the FREEDOM to travel a long distance and sit in it using electric stuff like the TV
... not that you have you keep thinking where you can charge the thing.
stewgreen
stewgreen
I'll bet that a really trendy looking expensive aftermarket towable generator (maybe with an integrated barbecue?) is already being CAD modeled :-)
tomo
Tomo, Tesla should always be worried.
They have no unique technology in either batteries or car manufacturing. They never have and never will. What they do have is a reasonable design team for sports cars and a fixed amount of loyal supporters, some of them in government, willing to give them money that Tesla couldn't get if they had to operate under the same financial constraints as the major car makers.
Having a charismatic blue-sky ideas man in charge may also seem like a good thing to his supporters, but realy just doomed the company from the get-go, even as it brought the money rolling in.But you cannot build a company from scratch to compete with VAG or Toyota without spending a lot more money and time than Elon Musk's supporters have got. They are running out of road and it's just a question of time.
Perhaps a better analogy is the old Roadrunner cartoon (I think) where Wily Coyote ends up having to try and manually lay train track faster than the unexpected train is bearing down on him. The sensible thing to do is simply step sideways and let train meet its demise. But sensible things don't happen very often in cartoons and saving-the-planet 'green' manufacturing enterprises.
michael hart
Got an EV? Then you need one of these - your own personal generator
http://tinyurl.com/ybnfx2wo
Charging points not working? No problem fill her up with petrol!
http://tinyurl.com/ycqpvmsr
m
Oh "EP Tender: a French firm offering rental of back-up combustion engine trailers to help your EV out on longer trips.
Starting with a small annual fee to become a member, and then relatively low rates to rent
EP Tender then supplies you with an easy-to-use sealed trailer unit with a small three-cylinder Suzuki engine, which charges the car’s electric motor while you go along, offering up to 600km more range for one fill-up of the petrol motor."
stewgreen
Today, @Volkswagen and @Tesco have announced their partnership with Pod Point - rolling out the UK's largest retail network of EV chargers including 2,400 charging bays, at 600 stores by 2020.
... how long will they be free ?
we'll all be paying for them
stewgreen
Tesla news
Tesla threw every trick it had and managed to declare a three month profit
but by now things have gone wrong . Deliveries are way behind target so share price dropped to 270p
Last weeks news
A simple hack can cause deaths
This research paper describes a fascinating attack on Tesla self-driving cars: put stickers with specially designed patterns on the road to confuse the onboard #neuralnetwork and make the autopilot veer into the oncoming lane: https://buff.ly/2FSXgRo
stewgreen
An interesting situation is developing between Tesla and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Big-Oil-Scrambles-To-Cut-Teslas-Lifeline.html
Tesla unlikely to go bust?
m
@M Claim Chrysler about to buy Tesla pollution certificates
FakeNews IMHO , just one of thousands of stories put out to pump Tesla shares
\\ The FT article explains that new EU regulations on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions require that new vehicles emit no more than 95g/CO2 per kilometer. In 2018, these emissions averaged 120.5g/CO2 per kilometer and FCA vehicles averaged 123g/CO2.
FCA could address its emissions problem by selling hybrid and electric vehicles. However, it has yet to produce any. Consequently, according to FT, the firm would face more than two billion euros (2.3 billion dollars) in fines when the EU CO2 emissions rule takes effect.
Now, however, FCA plans to avoid the fines by pooling its vehicle emissions with those of Tesla, A payment of more than one billion dollars, perhaps as much as two billion, would likely convince Tesla to pool with FCA.//
.. claiming Fiat Chrysler will pay $1bn .. that looks like a made up number.
stewgreen
At 267c the Tesla share price is around the 2 year low
stewgreen
Tesla shares continue to tank and then rise a bit
Last month at 211 , now on news or more Chinese tax breaks they are at 245
stewgreen
R4 Costing The Earth show
BBC blurb
"If they really can offer a car with a 300 mile range that can be charged in 10 minutes then the future may very well be electric."
Times Blurb
"Peter Gibbs investigates the pros and cons of electric cars - by buying one, and it is not long before he is having second thoughts."