Discussion > President Trump
Supertroll & tomo,
"Trump Bashing" is now accepted by the media as a legal blood sport, whereas Hillary Clinton is portrayed as more Saintly than Joan of Arc.
A bit of balance is required.
The Democrat swamp seems intent on draining the Republican swamp, as their best form of defence, but the Democrat swamp dwellers have had 2 terms of Obama to get comfortable, with St Hillary the anointed successor, now trying to govern by proxy.
If Saint Hillary is going to lead the Democrats to the next election, then a bit of balance does seem relevant.
golf charlie
Supertroll 2:26pm
yeah... I can see why that might be an attractive option - but the way the lady *and* her chums are persistently attacking Trump is as far as I can see quite unusual in 'Merkan politics. I get the distinct feeling that they are doing it because there are things they did in office which might well land a few people in front of judges and perhaps more to the point juries.... and since what they did was illegal and indefensible - the only option is attack.
Even with the most universally reviled POTUS I can recall - Nixon - this level of sustained and shrill nastiness without actually making an accusation stick is odd and frankly worrying in terms of the democratic process.
In other news - it rather looks like Obamah's decision to use the IRS to assault perceived political threats is coming back around to haunt him. Lois Lerner wants her depositions sealed in perpetuity? - really?
tomo
I agree with you Gwen (I think) but then all the more reason to have a quite separate discussion thread within which Clinton can be ritualistically disemboweled. This would reserve this thread for the adoration of Trump and the excoration of his detractors. Two discussions I can ignore or sporadically view with repugnance.
Supertroll
Supertroll
disemboweling HRC?
adoration of Trump?
nope ... neither
Some pointers to what's actually been said and done - rather than the UK MSM version of what's going on is why I'm here - whether I like the individuals on the stage or not is irrelevant to me.
You seem to be a senior snowflake - pronouncing that you want to avoid what you deem repugnant discussions?
what.ever
tomo
Supertroll & tomo,
Nobody has ever thanked Trump for his outstanding contributions to Climate Science at COP23.
I hope they remain outstanding forever.
golf charlie
Tomo. My opinions: don't affect you in any way. Proceed as you will: I refuse to insult you in return, sinking to your level.
Supertroll
Even with the most universally reviled POTUS I can recall - Nixon - this level of sustained and shrill nastiness without actually making an accusation stick is odd and frankly worrying in terms of the democratic process.
What is worrying is that the democratic process delivered Dishonest Don as the best man for the job.
Which accusations do not stick?
- Dishonesty - an average of 5 lies a day - check
- Criminality - when his casinos were going under (and what kind of businessman loses money running a casino FFS?), his father dispatched a messenger to purchase $3.5 million in chips. Chips that were never wagered. This is of course an illegal loan, but the authorities administered a slap on the wrist fine, there being of course one law for the 1% swamp-dwellers and another for the rest of us. Similarly the Trump Taj Mahal casino broke anti-money laundering rules 106 times in its first year resulting in a $0.48 million fine. See above about 1 law for them...
Check
And that's just scratching the surface.
- Neanderthal attitudes towards women. Apart from the well-known 'pussy-grabbing' tape, the purchase of 'Miss Teen USA' so he could wander into the dressing room unannounced, there are the affairs and the accusation of rape in a sworn deposition from Ivanka Trump.
Then there's the YUGE yawning chasm between what he promised and what has been delivered, in terms of legislation.
So what are these 'unfounded' accusations exactly?
Phil Clarke
Then there's the YUGE yawning chasm between what he promised and what has been delivered, in terms of legislation.
So what are these 'unfounded' accusations exactly?
Nov 21, 2017 at 9:08 PM | Phil Clarke
What has he said about Climate Science since becoming President?
golf charlie
Trump didn't fall for this lie:
Latest Hockey Stick
Actually, it is the Gergis Australia study, Joelle and her team have corrected the various issue and resubmitted the study and it has been reviewed and accepted, in the face of the usual denier unpleasantness.
Conclusion:"Overall, we are confident that observed temperatures in Australasia have been warmer in the past 30 years than every other 30-year period over the entire millennium (90% confidence based on 12,000 reconstructions, developed using four independent statistical methods and three different data subsets). Importantly, the climate modelling component of our study also shows that only human-caused greenhouse emissions can explain the recent warming recorded in our region."
Add it to the list.
Jul 11, 2016 at 10:46 PM | Phil Clarke
Check
golf charlie
Nov 22, 2017 at 1:44 AM | Registered Commenter tomo
You could have counted the lies in Phil Clarke's post that I copied above.
Dishonest people have a problem with Trump, but not Saint Hillary.
golf charlie
I knew that Eric Schmidt was a US Democrat bigwig and that his missus is a prominent rich authoritarian eco-loon but....
Google morphs - a useful piece from Moon of Alabama blog.
tomo
OT a bit - but
For Phil Clarke
Returning to its Walter Duranty roots by the look of it?
tomo
tomo, only the Saudi's could lose $100bn down the back of a sofa without noticing it.
It is believed that various Radical Moslem Terrorists/Freedom Fighters/regimes have been supported by Saudi Arabian oil money that has leaked, and that was the source of Osama Bin Laden's funding.
Saudi Arabia lost the ability to fix the price of oil through OPEC, and it is in the Saudi's interest to restore stability and income by restricting supplies and increasing costs.
World Energy costs may rise, which would suit Russia, but not residents of the EU, because Renewables can't deliver with reducing nuclear power.
This will of course prove Trump correct. Fossil fuels are the way to go, and the UK needs to get fracking ASAP.
The Saudi Arabians may seek closer ties with the US, to ensure Radical Moslems don't creep into their territory, wanting to restore their wealth.
golf charlie
gc
I think it's difficult to overstate how rattled the Al-Saud clan were by the Mahdist siege of Mecca in 1979 and how comprehensively they caved in to the Salafist clerics. They gave them ("the beards") a domestic mandate that both strangled any liberalisation and allowed billions $$$ to be hosed into Salafist evangelizing in poor countries with a Muslim population and rich countries that (stupidly) assumed they were immune to a virulent religion in the 20th / 21st centuries d/t their education systems and mostly secular state arrangements...
I really don't see the sense in the CIA pandering to and promoting Islamic fundamentalism and jihad (as they surely are) - the brown nosing in the NYT is epic - even by the NYT's historically low standards. I suspect that the intent is to cause trouble with the Iranian regime - who are regarded with quite astonishingly virulent hatred by the Saudi establishment who in turn are hated by many in Iran....
Objective reportage is almost entirely absent in the MSM and the situation so tangled that outsiders taking any partisan position will end in embarrassment....
The whooshing noise however was the NYT's credibility disappearing down the toilet ... again.
tomo
Objective reportage is almost entirely absent in the MSM and the situation so tangled that outsiders taking any partisan position will end in embarrassment....
Nov 26, 2017 at 6:43 PM | tomo
I know enough to know that statement is true!
I do not even know how accurate this is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_jihadism
but it helps, a bit, to demonstrate how many options there are, to make a mistake, about what anybody believes to be true, about what they know about one branch of Islam.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/what-are-differences-between-sunni-shiite-muslims-n489951
Then it gets more complicated......
golf charlie
I have no idea whether there was any truth in this story
"Tony Blair Reportedly Aiming to Be Trump's Middle East Peace Envoy
Former British prime minister reportedly met in Washington with Jared Kushner, slated by his father-in-law to lead efforts on an Israeli-Palestinian deal."
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.775277
Apart from Blair, who benefitted from his time as the UN's Middle East Peace Envoy?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/27/tony-blair-resigns-as-middle-east-peace-envoy-report
"Blair’s departure came as little surprise. There has been mounting unease in Britain, the US and the EU over his extensive business activities in the Middle East – which have led to repeated accusations of conflicts of interest. Criticism of his effectiveness and credibility has increased in recent months and there was anger that he visited the Gaza Strip so infrequently."
I expect Trump wants to do something different, rather than repeating the same errors.
golf charlie
Trump has referenced her foundation ties in the past, saying she needs to "return the $25 million" Saudi Arabia gave the foundation.
http://www.politifact.com/arizona/statements/2016/jul/11/donald-trump/did-hillary-clinton-take-money-countries-treat-wom/
Our ruling
"Trump said that Hillary Clinton has "been given tens of millions of dollars by countries that treat women horribly...and countries that kill gays."
Trump's comment oversimplifies donations to the Clinton Foundation to make a quick attack against his Democratic rival. He makes it sound as if Clinton personally received money from foreign governments with poor records on human rights. But political candidates cannot accept donations from foreign governments.
However, several countries with harsh rules for women and that kill gays have contributed to the Clinton Foundation both before and after her tenure at the State Department.
We rate Trump’s claim Half True."
Read the article in full, but I think Trump was more than half right. Perhaps it depends on the source of the Saudi oil money?
golf charlie
gc
LOL - I suppose Blair's self regard and appetite for what must, in truth - be BS influence peddling - would naturally end up with him sniffing around the Trump encampment.
The quantity of low information / no on the ground experience punditry about ME affairs is astonishing - without all the actual paid-for hacks throwing up smoke and partisan disinformation.
Yeah... there's the Sunni / Shia thing but as we've seen there are other serious sub-enmities with other religions / sects, pure tribal stuff, economic self interest and territorial ambition all of which interweave and then there's the overlaid proxy games of trying to ramp up a new cold war by some of the big guns... "powderkeg" hardly does it justice.
There is no doubt in my mind that regimes in the Middle East with spare cash use considerable quantities of said cash to buy influence in the west and use the best, most connected bag men in the business to arrange it all. Money buys quite surprising things .... in Gulf War 1 Saddam bribed the Pakistani military to come in on his side .... for about 2 days..... Saddam attacked Kuwait in large part because the Kuwaitis and their KSA / Gulfy chums refused to stump up for his spending on the war with Iran which they'd essentially hired him for.
tomo
The Guardian publishes whining that Trump is destroying the USA's intelligence agencies...
That seems ... a bit out of character.... ?
tomo
tomo, having economies that donot crash due to fluctuations in the price of oil, may be one of the reasons why certain businesses and Governments saw benefits in accelerating progress beyond "Peak Oil", with unreliable energy.
Trump wants the USA to be self sufficient for energy. Russian interests would like to sell their fossil fuels abroad, for the highest amount. China needs more coal. Iran AND Iraq have both been selling oil on the blackmarket without their countries benefitting
The EU has backed its butt into a wind turbine, while Merkel's Germany cooks sliced meat and rostbratwurst on brown coal.
golf charlie
Merkel's Germany cooks sliced meat and rostbratwurst on brown coal.
I haven't done the rough sums - but 2 Nord Stream gas lines (110 BCM annually) from Siberian fields cook an awful lot of bratties - and the fact that those gas pipes avoided Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania has contributed to the natives therabouts getting more uppity than might otherwise be the case.
The demise of the Southstream gas project (at the hands of Brussels... pretty much imho) and the subsequent diversion of gas to Turkey is something that many in the UK seem to have missed - but isn't lost on the Italians....
The Chinese have already plumbed in Turkmenistan gas - which borders Iran...
tomo
Nov 27, 2017 at 12:57 AM | tomo
So this was all "done and dusted" under the watchful eye of US Democrats, whilst advocating Green Blob policies?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/17/questions-over-german-ministerial-hopefuls-links-to-russian-pipeline
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/14/gas-pipeline-nord-stream-2-funnel-billions-putin-bypass-sanctions
Trump has no reason to trust the EU Leadership and its Russian connections, and the EU has less reason to trust Germany. How did Germany prevent Greenpeace et al from obstructing the development, whilst promoting Energiewende?
golf charlie
"How did Germany prevent Greenpeace et al from obstructing the development, whilst promoting Energiewende"
Some old Stasi / KGB chums worked it out with German Green and NGO bigwigs they still keep on a short leash (the Petra Kelly effect)
The Guardian noticed a "ministerial hopeful's " links? - gollygosh, sheesh ... eye-roll + head shake - and a certain Herr Schoeder - ex Kanzler der Bundesrepublik is / was chairman of the board? - they're sharp they are - at GMG King's Cross eh?
tomo
Tomo. If you want to discuss or berate Clinton why not devote a discussion thread to her? Then I can ignore it.