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Discussion > Covid 19 stuff

"Beijing doubles down in EU propaganda battle
Despite criticism, China keeps up PR and diplomatic offensive over coronavirus."

https://www.politico.eu/article/beijing-doubles-down-in-eu-propaganda-battle/

"PARIS — Beijing’s not backing down.

China is pushing ahead with a propaganda campaign critical of Western democracies and their handling of the coronavirus, even after protests from Paris and a high-profile diplomatic dispute between Beijing and the EU over Chinese disinformation.

Two weeks after French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian summoned China's ambassador to France, Lu Shaye, over the embassy's publication of a post that derided France's care for its senior citizens during the pandemic, another critical post was published Sunday on the diplomatic mission's website.

The article, titled "Why the Covid-19 epidemic is so politicized," was attributed to an anonymous Chinese diplomat. Seeking to explain why questions have been asked about China's responsibility in the spread of the virus, the article said "some Westerners are beginning to lose confidence in liberal democracy," and "some [Western countries] have become psychologically weak."

ance Lu Shaye | Guillaume Souvant/AFP via Getty Images

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PARIS — Beijing’s not backing down.

China is pushing ahead with a propaganda campaign critical of Western democracies and their handling of the coronavirus, even after protests from Paris and a high-profile diplomatic dispute between Beijing and the EU over Chinese disinformation.

Two weeks after French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian summoned China's ambassador to France, Lu Shaye, over the embassy's publication of a post that derided France's care for its senior citizens during the pandemic, another critical post was published Sunday on the diplomatic mission's website.

The article, titled "Why the Covid-19 epidemic is so politicized," was attributed to an anonymous Chinese diplomat. Seeking to explain why questions have been asked about China's responsibility in the spread of the virus, the article said "some Westerners are beginning to lose confidence in liberal democracy," and "some [Western countries] have become psychologically weak."

The article appeared on the same day that German officials disclosed that Chinese diplomats had tried to get Germany to speak positively about China's handling of the coronavirus.

The two cases are the latest in a string of efforts widely seen as intended to deflect criticism of China's handling of the outbreak in the city of Wuhan, promote images of China providing assistance to other countries struggling with the pandemic and raise questions about Western democracy.

However, the tension over Chinese propaganda efforts has also highlighted a dilemma faced by European leaders — while they may be vexed by Beijing's attempts to influence their own citizens, they are also heavily dependent on China for masks and other medical supplies to fight the pandemic, and will also need China's economic muscle to help pull the Continent out of a deep recession.

...China has also been flexing its muscles in Brussels and Berlin. After POLITICO reported last Tuesday that the European External Action Service (EEAS) had compiled a report that accused China of continuing to run a "global disinformation campaign to deflect blame for the outbreak of the pandemic and improve its international image," Beijing exerted diplomatic pressure to change the findings.

In the version that was finally published on Friday, some elements concerning China used softer language and other elements from the earlier report were not present.

Peter Stano, the EEAS spokesperson, insisted on Monday that Brussels had not bowed to external pressure and spoke of a “misperception.”

He argued that there had been two different versions of the report, with one version “designed for internal consumption, and another report prepared independently for public consumption.” The publicly released version had undergone “a different editorial process” because it was designed for “different purposes and audiences,” he added.

Lawmakers in the European Parliament, however, were not satisfied with that explanation. Sandra Kalniete, a deputy leader of the center-right European People's Party group, said she was “revolted” by the apparent changes in the report and urged EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell “to fully explain in detail and without any delay what happened."

The centrist Renew Europe group in the Parliament also demanded answers. In a letter initiated by MEP Bart Groothuis, the group asked Borrell “to provide a formal and full explanation … at the earliest possible convenience.”""

Apr 29, 2020 at 8:57 AM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

8:45 AM | Mark Hodgson

The Chinese people are quite capable of making good products. The involvement of the CCP extends down to all export transactions exceeding a value of about £300. When I was last there just about all currency below a value of 100 renminbi (ca. $10 USD) was counterfeit / "home produced" ( 100 renminbi was a lower bound as a day rate for an unskilled labourer.) . Indentured labour is commonplace - look no further than the indentured workers exported to northern Italy...... where Chinese outfits bought up Italian outfits after years of bringing them to their knees with knock-offs..... The Chinese communists started out largely as bandits and gangsters

Reciprocity is absolutely non existent - as Land Rover are still finding out.

The despotism of the CCP is epic, as is the overt racism that the regime cultivates = you are inferior....

I have dealt with many pleasant and urbane Chinese people and to blame them for the antics of the CCP would be profoundly wrong.

The Communists abducted the head of Interpol and the west looked the other way. The bandits presently running China view the western democracies as weak, easily compromised and inferior. It is not a mindset that plays to a peaceful future.

Calling the Australians "gum on the sole of our shoe" (I suspect gum is a mis-translation) is only a part of it. Some of the language deployed domestically - by the regime - as I remarked above is worthy of Pyongyang....

The regime has a grisly history and wholesale cover-ups of mistakes are a fact of life - I'm prepared to accept that the virus got out by accident, but the cover up exceeds the original deed - for this regime though "loss of face" is an existential threat, the seriousness of which is completely lost on almost everybody in the west and as we are seeing they will try to move heaven and earth to swerve loss of face.....

Apr 29, 2020 at 10:07 AM | Registered Commentertomo

The sort of reciprocity the CCP regime likes is that due to developing nation status they get near free carriage out of China and block stuff going in the other direction. Just look at the goods that are sold online at prices that are lower than the cost of carriage from here to there......

Apr 29, 2020 at 10:28 AM | Registered Commentertomo

The Guardian even has it now:

"China bristles at Australia's call for investigation into coronavirus origin
Beijing warns relationship could be damaged ‘beyond repair’ after Australian prime minister Scott Morrison cites ‘extraordinary’ impact of Covid-19"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/australia-defends-plan-to-investigate-china-over-covid-19-outbreak-as-row-deepens

"The Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, has defied China and defended the “entirely reasonable and sensible” call for an investigation into the origins of coronavirus, as the international political fallout over the pandemic deepened.

China has been pushing back against criticism from other governments about how it handled the outbreak of Covid-19, which is believed to have started in Wuhan and which has now infected 3 million people worldwide and killed 200,000.

Donald Trump’s accusation at the weekend that Beijing could have done more to prevent the deadly spread of the disease was met with fierce criticism from China’s state media.

While Australia has eschewed the more strident approach of the US, which has stopped funding to the World Health Organisation (WHO), it has urged its allies to back an overhaul of the WHO and suggested recruiting independent investigators akin to “weapons inspectors” to determine the source of major disease outbreaks.

On Wednesday Morrison said his government “will of course continue to pursue what is a very reasonable and sensible course of action”.

“This is a virus that has taken more than 200,000 lives across the world,” he told reporters in Canberra. It has shut down the global economy. The implications and impacts of this are extraordinary.

“Now, it would seem entirely reasonable and sensible that the world would want to have an independent assessment of how this all occurred, so we can learn the lessons and prevent it from happening again.”

Australia’s stance has angered Beijing, which has denied wrongdoing during the pandemic . In recent days Chinese state media has run numerous inflammatory statements including that Australia was “gum stuck to the bottom of China’s shoe”, doing the work of the US but without holding any influence, and risking longterm damage to its bilateral relationship and trading partnership with China.

On Tuesday, the Chinese embassy released details of a call from Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Dfat), and in a further move to embarrass the Morrison government, claimed the Dfat secretary had said it was “not the time to commence the review now and Australia has no details of the proposal”.

The move came after warnings by China’s ambassador to Australia, Jingye Cheng, on Monday over consumer boycotts, described by an Australian minister as “threats of economic coercion”.

A Tuesday night editorial in the Global Times accused Australia of “panda bashing” and victim blaming, and Morrison of “adventurism” which could damage the bilateral relationship “beyond repair”.

“The Morrison government’s adventurism to fiddle with this mutually beneficial comprehensive strategic partnership is in defiance of rational thought and common sense,” it said.

“Canberra is treading on a hazardous path that has no prospect for a U-turn during the Covid-19 pandemic, and likely for a long time afterward.”

But on Wednesday Morrison insisted the investigation “is not targeted” and refused to buy in to the war of words with China, saying the response was “a matter for them”.

“Australia will do what is in our interest, in the global interest, and we will of course continue to support moves to ensure there is a proper independent assessment of what has occurred here.”

Morrison said Australia’s relationship with China was “mutually beneficial” and noted its trade with China consisted mainly of export of resources. “I see no reason why that would alter in the future.”"

Apr 29, 2020 at 2:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

The market likes this news...

Apr 29, 2020 at 4:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Phil. - that looks like simple market pumping PR.

Apr 29, 2020 at 5:05 PM | Registered Commentertomo

"Phil. - that looks like simple market pumping PR.
Apr 29, 2020 at 5:05 PM tomo"

For more realism, try a comparisons of Computer Generated Models, Coronavirus v. Climate

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/28/key-indicator-analysis-the-chinese-virus-and-the-climate-scam/

"But just look at the predictions made by the wretched models. In 1990 IPCC, ignoring the importance of the leading indicators, predicted 3 degrees’ equilibrium warming; the CMIP5 models predicted 3.35 degrees; and the CMIP6 models predict 4.1 degrees, with an interval of 3 to a remarkable 5.2 degrees. All of these predictions are manifestly excessive. They are two to four times too big."

Apr 29, 2020 at 6:08 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Being in the Daily Mail (renowned for their medical expertise) is not an endorsement in my estimation - but - whatever....

THIS

Apr 29, 2020 at 7:41 PM | Registered Commentertomo
Apr 29, 2020 at 8:16 PM | Registered Commentertomo

No. You cannot just divide temperature change by forcing to get sensitivity. This was first pointed out to Monckton in 2006.

Apr 29, 2020 at 8:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

"No. You cannot just divide temperature change by forcing to get sensitivity. This was first pointed out to Monckton in 2006.

Apr 29, 2020 at 8:44 PM Phil Clarke"

How many rules of statistical analysis did Mann break to fabricate his Hockey Stick, and how many Climate Scientists Peer Reviewed it and still deny errors?

Apr 29, 2020 at 9:22 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

The Guardian reports on markets liking the news, as per Phil's post. I fear that tomo is right, but I hope the confidence of the markets is not misplaced. It would be nice to have some good news.

"World's stock markets soar on coronavirus treatment hopes
Investors shrug off US growth gloom after promising data from remdesivir drug trial"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/29/world-stock-markets-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-drug-trial

Apr 29, 2020 at 9:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

Details of the trial are here.

It seems reasonably well done: sample size n=397, properly randomized. Dr. Anthony Fauci seems to believe it is more than just PR:

The data shows that remdesivir has a clear-cut, significant, positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/us-says-remdesivir-shows-clear-cut-effect-treating-coronavirus-doc-1qw4fr2

Apr 29, 2020 at 10:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Mark

Remdesivir interferes with the virus's RNA replication by blocking the transcription as I understand it. It is purportedly quite cheap to manufacture and safe but at a guess (ianad) for maximum effect it needs to be used early or as a prophylactic - given that once symptoms present the virus is already causing tissue damage which in some unfortunates triggers immune system problems. So... a limited time window for those who are in trouble ... It seems likely that it'll be useful when used in concert with some method for reeling in a wonky immune response.

- so really not that different from what's hypothesised by some researchers as the MO of hydroxychloroquine with the similar caveats as to appropriate usage.

Just because you have halted the virus's reproductive machinery does not deliver recovery as the mess of dead cells that drove the symptoms to present have to be cleared up and it seems logical that fragments of virus combined with debris from infected cells can drive the immune system into a fatal tailspin.

I reckon (!) that there is more, much more to this and that a "flat"placebo test cannot account for the immunological aspects driven by the subject genotypes - there will be more about this later - no doubt.

Apr 29, 2020 at 10:35 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Oh just f-ing wonderful - Greta's handlers have decided to re-brand her as a coronavirus campaigning pixie.

Desperate times demand desperate measures I know - but really ....

Apr 29, 2020 at 11:09 PM | Registered Commentertomo

bloody asteroid missed ....

Apr 29, 2020 at 11:29 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Oh ... Phil .... seen the Remdesivir study in The Lancet?

Fauci needs some positive spin at the moment as a deflection from questions about his involvement with WIV

Apr 29, 2020 at 11:49 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Sweden has had an an unusual strategy for dealing with the virus - I guess we're now going to see if you can annoy a virus to death. (stolen)

Apr 30, 2020 at 7:23 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Apr 29, 2020 at 10:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Hmmmm...... there seem to be better alternatives out there

"to date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.

The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydroxychloroquine-90-percent-chance-helping-155637974.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw

"The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis, appears to be a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5%, in elderly patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagious infectivity in most cases"

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview#

Apr 30, 2020 at 12:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

More on remdesivir .....

"Hope in the drug was revived on Wednesday when the US government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, said data from one clinical trial “shows that remdesivir has a clear-cut, significant, positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery”. But within hours of Fauci’s announcement, the prestigious medical journal The Lancet published results from a study in China which found remdesivir did not speed recovery or reduce deaths from Covid-19 compared with a placebo in hospital patients"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/remdesivir-the-antiviral-drug-is-being-touted-as-a-possible-coronavirus-treatment-but-will-it-work

Apr 30, 2020 at 12:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

As has been said, Fauci will make money from this.

If I'm infected, I'll ask for HCQ - ZPack - zinc immediately. Already taking extra zinc.

Phil Clarke in favour of remdesivir = avoid it like the plague.

Apr 30, 2020 at 4:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterCharly

Bill Gates sponsored pandemic conference 2019 attendee competition coronavirus soft toys are a thing ?

Why yes they are... - and likely to become quite the most iconic 2020 keepsake - they're probably also likely made in China.

Apr 30, 2020 at 6:01 PM | Unregistered Commenterfred

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/30/model-madness-parallels-between-failed-climate-models-and-failed-coronavirus-models/

Climate Models And Failed Coronavirus Models
Anthony Watts April 30, 2020
"PODCAST with Dr. Roy Spencer – Climate models and coronavirus models are being used to set public policy. Both have proven to be failures. It’s that old “uncertainty monster” again.

Climate models and coronavirus models have both been used to predict the future, and both have been used to form public policy. In this podcast between Anthony Watts and UAH climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer, we examine the common denominator of failure they both share. We also look at why Carbon Dioxide hasn’t been visibly reduced due to the economic shutdowns."

Apr 30, 2020 at 6:08 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Masks , experts etcetera ...

A useful summary

May 1, 2020 at 6:13 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Fewer than 40% of “Gold Standard” double blind medical studies can be replicated.

May 1, 2020 at 6:06 PM | Registered Commentertomo