Discussion > Covid 19 stuff
ooh... bit of leaking going on....looks like it might be inconvenient
fred
That's going to be interesting ... a fake? / genuine? / from a state actor? / China? / The CIA? / 'doze 'wikkid 'wushinz?
pffff.....
tomo
fred
That Trump game-changer, another study.
More research is needed, but so far it is looking a lot less like any kind of miracle cure.
But there's a reason these false or unproven claims are resonating with the ordinary citizens of Trumpistan. The hope that there's a hard-to-get miracle cure that will save them speaks directly to the poisonous social Darwinism that guides modern conservatism. It reflects deep hostility to the very concept of a shared public good and a fierce attachment to a racialized ideology of individualism that treats public goods such as health care as things to be hoarded by those with the privilege, money and status to do so.Conservative ideology simply doesn't allow for the possibility that anything, including pandemic management, is best managed with a "we're all in this together" mentality. Instead they're drawn to this fantasy that there's a Platinum Member COVID-19 status that can be purchased, which will allow them to opt out of the suffering of the plebeian class that has to quarantine or risk sickness and death.
Phil Clarke
Apr 22, 2020 at 1:47 PM Phil Clarke
Do explain further in the context of Climate Science's failure to diagnose and predict.
golf charlie
When you are quoting Amanduh in Salon, you are at the bottom of the barrel.
Charly
Phil Clarke,there's a stinky piece by Tom McCarthy in the Guardian saying the same. No bottom to the barrel.
Charly
Salon ?
- the aim has nothing to do with actually trying to improve outcomes for victims and everything to do with leveraging body bags for political points....
I doubt Salon has published anything useful over the trajectory of the epidemic - they make the Guardian look like Völkischer Beobachter.
fred
Coronavirus deaths greater among Fox News viewers that prefer Hannity over Tucker Carlson, study says Newsweek.
Guardian readers and BBC watchers/listeners less likely to die of Wuhan coronavirus says The Independent.
- I made the second one up.
tomo
Didier Raoult responds to "Phil's study"
That 4Chan thing has rattled a few cages and seems to have triggered a response from Twitter Inc. One Twitter account has been showered with conspiracy BS from accounts unconnected with the normal operation of the account - like a smokescreen of distraction - really hamfisted stuff.
tomo
As you could expect, the media pounced on the study. The Washington Post, CNN, Salon, TIME Magazine, and plenty of others were just itching to claim that Trump had been wrong or even irresponsible for touting hydroxychloroquine in the first place. International Business Times even wrote: "Trump's Hydroxychloroquine Caused More Deaths, Study Reveals."But, if you actually read through the reporting, even read through the study itself, it becomes clear that the media, which was quick to downplay or ignore earlier studies showing the drug worked, were too quick to hype this study's findings. Here are five problems with the study that should give you pause before you turn your back on hydroxychloroquine.
clipe
But there's a reason these false or unproven claims are resonating with the ordinary citizens of Trumpistan. The hope that there's a hard-to-get miracle cure that will save them speaks directly to the poisonous social Darwinism that guides modern conservatism. It reflects deep hostility to the very concept of a shared public good and a fierce attachment to a racialized ideology of individualism that treats public goods such as health care as things to be hoarded by those with the privilege, money and status to do so.
Conservative ideology simply doesn't allow for the possibility that anything, including pandemic management, is best managed with a "we're all in this together" mentality. Instead they're drawn to this fantasy that there's a Platinum Member COVID-19 status that can be purchased, which will allow them to opt out of the suffering of the plebeian class that has to quarantine or risk sickness and death.
Deplorables: Trump, Brexit and the Demonised Masses
clipe
"China coronavirus cases might have been four times official figure, says study
More than 232,000 could have been infected in first wave, compared with then-official total of 55,000, as US envoy calls for rethink of US-China relationship"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/china-coronavirus-cases-might-have-been-four-times-official-figure-says-study
"More than 232,000 people might have been infected in the first wave of Covid-19 in mainland China, four times the official figures, according to a study by Hong Kong researchers.
Mainland China reported more than 55,000 cases as of 20 February but, according to research by academics at Hong Kong University’s school of public health published in the Lancet, the true number would have been far greater if the definition of a Covid-19 case that was later used had been applied from the outset.
China has now reported more than 83,000 cases. Globally, the death toll from the coronavirus has exceeded 183,000, with the number of cases worldwide standing at more than 2.6 million.
China’s national health commission issued seven versions of a case definition for Covid-19 between 15 January and 3 March, and the study found these changes had a “substantial effect” on how many infections which were detected as cases.
It comes as China’s ambassador to the US called for “a serious rethink of the foundations” of the two countries’ relationship, while also criticising US politicians for ignoring scientists and making “groundless” accusations.
The Hong Kong study analysed data up to 20 February culled from the World Health Organization’s mission to Wuhan.
It estimated that each of the first four changes increased the proportion of cases detected and counted, by between 2.8 and 7.1 times."
Mark Hodgson
It looks like a Brit who endured the plague in Wuhan has emerged and is relating his experience to James Delingpole on Dellers podcast.
Given that there are enough UK passport holders in the Hubei and Henan provinces to warrant a Consul General in Wuhan one wonders at the dearth of first hand reports from the epicentre of the outbreak - although the reputation for vindictiveness of the Chinese Communist Party does go some way to explaining it.... the chap involved feels he can't use his real name and is probably at risk even using his own voice. I also wonder where the successors to Kate Adie are?
tomo
Another hydroxychloroquine whistle blower - eerie how the Guardian spends so little time seeking out possible treatments or exploring alternate methods of dealing with the epidemic.
One might think they like it.
tomo
Civil unrest in "the suburbs" of Paris
fred
Work on SARS-CoV 2 mutations:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study
Charly
Charly
with fresh tranche of "deviants" in HK arrested - reading that and in particular the lauding of "Professor Li" I rather suspect that even though there's a bit more freedom in HK it's a relative thing - and that pretty much whatever the CCP want to put out is put out. After all Jack Ma now owns the SCMP group. The predecessor to Dr. Tedros is worth a look since she got some stick for sucking up to the ChiComms when she was HK public health boss iirc.
At the moment some more information on what happened in Wuhan from eye witnesses is what interests me. That guy Delingpole's managed to find seems to have a pretty harrowing tale to tell - although non subscribers will have to wait a bit - not much compared to 8 weeks since hell broke loose in Wuhan....
tomo
tomo, we need to take all of it with industrial quantities of salt.
Charly
"As if we hadn't had enough of Trump-opposing medics in Drs. Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx -- meet the latest mad doctor foisting himself on us to Get Trump: Dr. Rick Bright, who says he was ousted from his position at the Department of Health and Human Services, supposedly for political reasons, claiming he opposed the use of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of COVID-19, while President Trump favored it."
Bright told The New York Times on Wednesday that he believed his removal was because of his internal opposition to pursuing investments in malaria drugs as potential treatments for Covid-19, which President Donald Trump has touted without scientific evidence. Three people with knowledge of HHS' recent acquisition of tens of millions of doses of those drugs said that Bright had supported those acquisitions in internal communications, with one official saying that Bright praised the move as a win for the health department as part of an email exchange that was first reported by Reuters last week, although Bright's message was not publicly reported."If Bright opposed hydroxychloroquine, he certainly didn't make that clear from his email — quite the opposite," said the official, who has seen copies of the email exchanges.
In a statement late Wednesday, an HHS official directly linked Bright's decisions to the health department's acquisition of the malaria drugs.
"As it relates to chloroquine, it was Dr. Bright who requested an Emergency Use Authorization from the Food and Drug Administration for donations of chloroquine that Bayer and Sandoz recently made to the Strategic National Stockpile for use on COVID-19 patients," spokesperson Caitlin Oakley said. "The EUA is what made the donated product available for use in combating COVID-19."
clipe
Democrats in Michigan will vote on Saturday to censure one of their colleagues who praised President Trump for advocating the use of an anti-malarial drug that she claimed cured her of COVID-19.
The 13th Congressional District Democratic Party Organization argues that state Rep. Karen Whitsett, D-Detroit, broke protocol by meeting with Trump and Vice President Mike Pence during an April 14 meeting of coronavirus survivors and for crediting hydroxychloroquine with saving her life.
That's going to go down about as well as Pelosi's ice cream episode.
fred
Pah. Yesterday's miracle cure.
I'm off to stock up on Dettol and syringes, and see if any tanning salons will open up for me....
Phil Clarke
Apr 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM Phil Clarke
Don't you think reducing CO2 concentrations to below 350ppm will be of any benefit at all?
golf charlie
not banned yet
there is a significant bust in experience and detail knowledge between the Lacoude and Montagnier - I feel that Lacoude's claim is the extraordinary one that requires extraordinary evidence. It's possible that Montagnier might be a bit past it - but the more I look the more dangerous tinkering I come across in the virus research field.
Lacoude is obviously busking it outside his speciality - and seems to be trying very hard at being peremptorily dismissive - he's going to be nowhere near as familiar as Montagnier with either the actual viruses or the techniques used to manipulate the genetics and their telltale footprints.
As can be seen with the Nature note on the link above - it's a sensitive topic.... There are other people who are quietly flagging a number of possible smoking guns but in the present environment it's clear that they have to tread very, very carefully.