Discussion > EU must be joking
Alan Kendall
Northern Ireland is 55% Remain, 30% Leave.
Mind you, as a poor, troubled and mostly agricultural area we get a lot more funding from the EU than East Anglia does. There is also the potential problem of the Eire border.
Sinn From want a referendum on a united Ireland if we leave the EU. Northern Ireland might end up staying even if the rest of the UK leaves. As an English Remainer living in Northern Ireland that vote would pose an interesting dilemma for me.
Entropic man
Entropic man on May 16, 2016 at 3:49 PM
"Aryan racial purity"
Given Merkel's immigration policy, one would think the opposite is the case.
"a post Brexit Britain"
It should run according to Parliament's wishes, and they should be turfed out if their actions displease the voters, unlike the EU.
"Historically individual freedom is maximised under politically central governments."
Like Juncker's merry band of centralising bureaucrats?
Freedom is best guaranteed by not being subjected to foreign powers, like Brussels, having the 'rule of law' above political power, unlike the EU, and democratic votes being taken seriously, again unlike the EU.
Robert Christopher
Should this post be in the EU thread or the BBC bias thread?
The BBC news website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36286057
has the headline: "Brexit 'risks international student recruitment'"
However, the article shows that the majority of respondents to a survey 52% said that Brexit would either: 'make no difference' or make the UK more attractive.
BBC facts 101: how not to report a majority finding that goes against your preconceived ideas.....
Of the 1,529 who expressed an opinion:
47% said UK universities would be less attractive in the event of Brexit
17% said they would be more attractive
35% said it would make no difference.
Steve Richards
Steve Richards
As you imply; the BBC has no peers when it comes to twisting, ignoring or rewriting facts to suit its liberal/left agenda ^.^
Robert Christopher
The best government would be a libertarian government which recognised that its role was to work for its citizens and not to control them, laws should be simple and as few as necessary should be in place.
Dung
EU rules force British officials to choose between handing top secret intelligence to terror suspects or letting them walk into Britain unchallenged
* Justice Minister Dominic Raab revealed the European Court ruling today
* Uncovering the obscure ruling for the first time, he said it was a 'massive headache' for the police and security services
* Writing exclusively for the Mail, the Brexit campaigner vowed to see the rules ripped up if Britain votes to leave the EU on June 23
"EU rules are forcing Britain to disclose top secret intelligence to terror suspects – or let them walk into the UK unhindered.
The explosive revelation on the threat to our national security, confirmed by court papers, is made today by Justice Minister Dominic Raab.
He also warns how thousands of criminals and suspected fanatics who could otherwise be turned away are being allowed to waltz through the UK's porous borders, owing to Brussels rules on free movement.
For the first time, Mr Raab lifts the lid on an obscure ruling by the European Court of Justice which poses a massive headache for Britain's police and security services.
The edict concerns cases where the Home Secretary wants to ban a suspected terrorist or extremist with an EU passport from entering the UK.
The ECJ, the official court of the EU, said that if a member state wanted to restrict a citizen's right of free movement, it must explain exactly why - even where to do so would endanger national security.
The result is that the Government would either have to hand over the intelligence it holds on a suspect, including paper files."
Not only does this make our national security efforts pointless - we cannot reject the very foreigners who need to be kept out - it also highlights the attitude of those in Brussels, those who have rejected their very own nationality in order to destroy the patriotism that has given us a tapestry of cultures in Europe, and the Rest of the World civilisation, and how handing over more power to them will not be in our interests.
Does David Cameron know about this, understand the implications or even care?
He hasn't addressed, successfully, this in any of his 'renegotiations', leaflets, speeches or in the Queen's Speech.
Robert Christopher
Great post Robert, this whole pro EU performance is descending into farce and if a reported comment in the Daily Mail turns out to be true then it will have arrived there; the EU said to be responsible for counting the votes after the referendum?
Dung
Paxman praised for shining light on REAL EU but Europhiles complain of 'BBC BIAS'
Here is the programme, but it is available for only 29 more days:
Paxman in Brussels: Who Really Rules Us?
The writing really is 'on the wall', at 5:00! :)
Robert Christopher
I watched the Paxton prog live but was not impressed really because of course the BBC would not allow him to express his views clearly. Paxo led the watching public to the right questions but left them to work out the answers themselves, sadly most will not manage it.
Dung
Dung, there's plenty of evidence to come, just comparing today with the past:
"People say they want “facts” before deciding how to vote next month, so here’s one to mull over. The EU is a profoundly anti-democratic institution. The European Commission, whom no-one elects, initiates policy in the EU. The European parliament, or indeed you or I, can ask it to do certain things: it can tell the parliament, or you and me, to get lost, and that’s that. Charles I tried something similar, and it started a civil war."
David Cameron's disgraceful dishonesty over the EU is turning Britain into a banana republic
And staying in the present:
"The damning Whitehall assessment – seen by the Telegraph – has found that France and other EU countries are hampering new “free-trade” deals because they want to protect their farmers from the extra competition.
David Cameron claims that the power of Brussels to negotiate these free-trade agreements with parts of the world such as the United States is a critical reason why Britain must not leave the EU.
But the memorandum suggests that Britain is losing out on £2.5 billion a year in potential trade as a result of the ongoing delays to a proposed deal between the EU and Latin America."
Trade wars: memo shows EU is costing UK billions
Robert Christopher
It's not only Turkey that wants to join the 'Community of Ever Closer Union': it's also Albania, Georgia, Ukraine, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Kosovo and Bosnia.
And just look at Kosovo, a country that we were supposed to have rescued. It is going the same way as those other African/ME countries that we have 'helped':
New York Times: How Kosovo Was Turned Into Fertile Ground for ISIS
And is it only happening in Kosovo? I think not.
I am more frightened by the apparent lack of understanding of our political leaders than any threat from our enemies, (which is really off-topic on this thread). Take the costly faith of Windmill Mania: discussion is not allowed, let alone doing any investigation. And then there's the diesel emissions fraud centred around V.W.: CO2 was all so important, until it was proved to be unimportant, and the US (who are NOT in the EU) has sorted the problem before anything has happened in Britain.
How can David Cameron not see that he is steering Britain towards stormy times, with no ability to influence our response because of the need to get agreement between 28 representatives to amend anything that is part of the EU directives and regulations which continually hamstring our government today. Without these idealistic 'solutions', each country could be held account by their electorate.
In Brussels, there is too much Authority and Power and too little Responsibility and Accountability: the people in Europe (and Britain) have had enough, politically, economically and culturally and are becoming impatient.
And when our National Grid runs out of power it will just 'add to the situation'.
We will be a banana republic, without any bananas!
Robert Christopher
Robert Christopher, the 'beauty' of the EU, is that having wasted vast sums, failing to deliver, they believe by takjng more money, and wasting it, they can fix the problems they have created.
Current conflict in Ukraine is partially due to the EU flirting with Ukraine and Russia getting jealous.
Neither the EU nor UN can be blamed for the Balkan wars, but EU and UN interference with the Peacekeeping troops sent in from countries including the UK, delayed them from restoring peace and saving lives.
SuperPower Domination Politics is now being replaced by EU Domination Politics, and this is reflected by other countries wanting to join. As the EU is unable to account for its own expenditure, or explain financial management, why they believe they are the experts in running whelk stalls in any country is beyond me.
golf charlie
Does anyone know what is happening in the British Cabinet?
Shouldn't we be told?
BRITAIN has hosted secret Euro-Army war games on Salisbury Plain, in a move feared to be a firm step towards the formation of an EU army.
It comes as the UK leads the EU’s high-readiness European Battle Group, which could see senior British Army officers take direct orders from Brussels Eurocrats.
Despite owing its allegiance to the Crown, the British Army was even ordered to emblazoned Headquarter vehicles with EU flags asserting beyond any doubt that they were not involved in a Nato exercise.
The revelation caused former defence secretary Liam Fox to last night warn: “They will try to say this has nothing to do with an EU Army but the truth is that, bit by bit, they are creating the mechanisms that will make it possible.”
Sunday Express: Female Italian EU boss behind migrant chaos set to order BRITISH ARMY into battle
Robert Christopher
Robert Christopher, in order to make an EU Army work, it will be necessary for EU Politicians to have fully expensed fact finding tours of every country in the world, annually. They will work, without personal sacrifice to establish which of the more exotic countries offer the best freebies, and probably wish to revisit more regularly to assess vulnerability to fraud and corruption, and whether an EU Occupation force would fit in with their holiday plans.
golf charlie
The principle question that perhaps should be asked: do you want this country to be run by a foreign-based power, many of whom are actively hostile towards this country, for the first time in 2,000 years?
It is irrelevant whether or not our government is any better at governing (and it has to be admitted that they are generally pretty useless), but at least we will have the option to oust them every 5 years or so. If we stay in, that option will be removed from us, for ever! (or at least until the whole EU edifice collapses, and then there will be hell to pay).
Radical Rodent
I don't know whether I have said it here, but if I have, I don't remember receiving a satisfactory response:
If it was SO important that African, Asian and American countries (re)gained their independence from the empires accumulated by several European countries over the centuries, what is the problem with European countries doing the same from a European non-country, especially when it is so dysfunctional?
I also find it puzzling that a US citizen can come over here and expect us to put up with 'taxation without any (credible) representation'. I really do. :)
Robert Christopher
Yes, RC, you are repeating yourself. It is a valid point, but not sure that it demands a response.
The BBC have summed up the basic stupidity that surrounds this with a news article today, involving a women’s drumming squad from Liverpool. Aside from the sexism in the article, it shows how dumb people are becoming, with all the ladies claiming that they are getting so many conflicting stories – what they want is to to be told which they should choose. Sorry, girls, but the onus is on you to educate yourselves about this; it is highly unlikely that you will get a wholly unbiased opinion, whichever side you listen to.
Radical Rodent
Green Sand
Robert Christopher
Do Wales, Scotland, Ulster, Brittany, The Faroes, Bornholm, Aosta Valley, Savoy, Bavaria, Tyrol, Flanders, Wallonia, Istria, Dalmatia, Moravia, Catalonia, Euskal Herria[, Corsica, Sardinia, Andalusia (I could go on but you'll have got the picture) count as nations who should be allowed to breakaway from a centralised power? Many, if not all, have political parties wanting independence or at least more autonomy, some with a history of violence. Several were incorporated into their current situation by force of arms, Wales, Ulster and Brittany for example; some by economic necessity Scotland for example; many have linguistic,cultural, religious and legal system differences with the state ruling them
If not where is your line in the sand?
SandyS
Sandy on May 24, 2016 at 7:47 AM
'allowed'?
From whom would these countries seek permission? :)
I don't think the 'African, Asian and American countries [that] (re)gained their independence' asked permission from anyone.
After sufficient local support was evident, they declared that it be so, with the type of transition dependent on the amenability of the colonialist power.
Robert Christopher
Robert Christopher
Dodging the question, you weren't a politician were you?
Would you be happy for the breakup of all the current members of the EU, because they all have separatist movements, and the breakup of an independent UK post Brexit? A simple YES or NO will do.
SandyS
SandyS
Why ask Robert to draw a line in the sand? He is not one of those who will decide what happens. Each country makes its own decisions or in reality each tribe decides for itself. The west likes to consider itself civilised and therefore not tribal; It is as tribal as any other part of the world.
Dung
Dung
I'm interested in what someone who holds national self-determination in high esteem thinks when the constituent parts of what he/she regards as their nation demand self determination using the same arguments about freedom, tax, stupid regulations from faraway bureaucrats and all the other things held against the EU.
Based on the Brexit arguments I think if the citizens of of Strathearn decided that they will be better off as an independent state with Steve Brown as president, Tommy Wright as Vice President then that's what should happen.
SandyS
I agree with your point but not that you hold Robert somehow accountable ^.^
I do not believe that anyone has the right to draw lines but on the other hand the lines do exist so what to do about them? When people join a club/group then I believe that the best way to keep them in that club is to make them feel valued and to make it clear that they are free to leave any time they wish.
Dung
Dung on May 24, 2016 at 12:51 PM
"When people join a club/group then I believe that the best way to keep them in that club is to make them feel valued and to make it clear that they are free to leave any time they wish."
So the EU isn't a club then? :)
Robert Christopher
EM. I suspect Boris is more of an El Duce reincarnation/clone than poor old Nigel. All Boris need do is shear his golden locks. Perhaps he could also promise to get Virgin Trains to run on time.
Saw headline in local paper this morning claiming East Angles leavers now surging in the poles with a 9% lead. But who knows how many will actually vote?